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  1. #21
    Expert Turn Key's Avatar

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    I wondered where the ticker would take me.

    Thanks for your great documentation.
    Excellent post bro!



    TK
    This space intentionally left blank.

  2. #22
    Master Lex Concord's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scutter01 View Post
    I wanted to expand on VUPDBlue's FAQ with my personal experiences as a first-time NFA purchaser. I will use and update this post with my observations and notations as I proceed through the process.

    Having had some amount of confusion as to the process when I started, I thought this would provide some additional assistance for the NFA newbie above and beyond the FAQs.

    Note that this is not meant to be procedural, but rather anecdotal. This is only what I have experienced. Your experience may vary, and I've made some notes to that effect below.

    *****
    March 7, 2009: My purchase was a Tactical Innovations TAC65 .22lr suppressor purchased from 21st Century Firearms. I provided only a driver's license, and paid for the item at that time. The dealer provided all paperwork and filled out 95% of it for me which consisted of two Form 4's (Application for Transfer), two blank fingerprint cards, and one Declaration of Citizenship.

    I completed the Form 4's with my signature and a small amount of other information and affixed one passport photo to each copy by means of a small piece of cellophane tape along each side of the photo. Under "reason for transfer", I wrote "All Lawful Purposes". I also completed the Declaration of Citizenship (titled Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B) and shown below), entering my own name in both the "declarer" and "certifier" fields. In other words, certifying myself. I then completed the fingerprint cards with my name, address, physical description, SSN, and employer. In the "reason" field, I wrote "NFA purchase".

    My passport photos were obtained from Walgreen's for a nominal fee, although you can take and print your own photos. If you decide to take your own, be sure to print them on photo paper, and be sure the dimensions and composition follow federal guidelines for passport photos.

    March 10, 2009: I brought the completed Form 4's and the fingerprint cards to the Noblesville PD. I was fingerprinted and sent home with my cards with instructions not to fold them or get them wet. I was told the ATF would reject them if I did.

    There was no fee for the fingerprinting or the local background check that the NPD performed. I don't know if all municipalities have the same procedures. I understand that some will sign while you wait while others make you jump through hoops. NPD's 24-48 hour local background check does not seem unreasonable to me. I never spoke with anyone besides the clerk that did the fingerprinting. She was very friendly and helpful, although I actually fingerprinted myself. All she did was roll the ink and tell me where to print.

    Interestingly enough, this is almost the exact same process I went through when applying for my LTCH, for which I was charged $50 by the City of Noblesville. She even used the same internal form for the background check that they use for the LTCH application. I reminded her that I wasn't applying for a license and she told me that they only had the one form type so they have to make a note on it that it's for NFA.

    Noblesville PD will take fingerprints and submissions (including for LTCH) at any time during normal business hours (M-F, 8:00-4:30). I understand some PD's have specific days or times, and some require an appointment.

    March 11, 2009: I received a call from NPD that the NPD CLEO had signed off and I could pick up my forms, less than 24 hours after submitting. I arrived at 8:30am the previous day for fingerprinting, and was called today at 7:55am to pick up my forms.

    I sent my forms paperclipped together along with a personal check for $200 made out to "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" to the BATFE in Atlanta, GA (address listed on Form 4) via USPS Priority Mail in a standard flat-rate 12-1/2" X 9-1/2" cardboard Priority Mail envelope. The envelopes are available for free from the post office and sometimes at stores that specialize in shipping (like the UPS Store). Postage was about five bucks. I also opted to pay the 65 cents for a delivery confirmation receipt because it was only 65 cents and then I could watch, via the intarwebs, my envelope's whirlwind world tour. Also note that my checkbook is the "Parker Bros. Board Game" series. The BATFE got a Monopoly check, which I found amusing on several levels.

    March 12, 2009: USPS reports that envelope left Indianapolis processing facility:
    See? Wasn't that thrilling? All that excitement for only 65 cents! A bargain at twice the price!

    March 14, 2009: Paperwork arrived at ATF Atlanta office. It dawned on me today that after months of saving my pennies and pining over a shiny thing I don't really need, that all the paperwork is done and all the fees are paid. My part is finally finished. I don't expect to update this again for several months, except possibly with a date the check was cashed.

    March 18, 2009: BATFE cashed my check


    *****

    Will update as more info is available.


    FOOTNOTES:

    Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B)
    aka "Declaration of Citizenship Form"
    Thanks for sharing your experience.

    Sad to say, but in a truly free nation, this would be a one-stepper, i.e. "Went to the corner hardware today and bought a suppressor/uzi/M16/etc."

    Oh well....we can dream shoot:
    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Franklin
    Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tench Coxe
    Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blakstone
    It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.

  3. #23
    Plinker -XL-'s Avatar

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    The sad thing about this thread is we'll be waiting till Christmas to see the outcome...

  4. #24
    Expert bigus_D's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    good deal! Ill be watching this thread.

    One question: did you ever give consideration to setting up a trust for NFA purchases? if so why did you choose not to have one? Im still debating.
    I've never looked into NFA purchases, but am interested in why one would setup a trust and how that works.

    excellent post by the way! looking forward to hearing how it works out. (but since it was a silencer you bought... )

  5. #25
    Grandmaster Scutter01's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigus_D View Post
    I've never looked into NFA purchases, but am interested in why one would setup a trust and how that works.
    A trust allows you to have joint ownership of an item with multiple people. The benefit is that if you die, you don't have to transfer the item to your beneficiary which would incur another tax stamp and three month wait.


    Meh.

  6. #26
    Grandmaster Cwood's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigus_D View Post
    I've never looked into NFA purchases, but am interested in why one would setup a trust and how that works.

    excellent post by the way! looking forward to hearing how it works out. (but since it was a silencer you bought... )
    Quote Originally Posted by Scutter01 View Post
    A trust allows you to have joint ownership of an item with multiple people. The benefit is that if you die, you don't have to transfer the item to your beneficiary which would incur another tax stamp and three month wait.

    It also eliminates the CLEO signature and the fingerprints.

  7. #27
    Expert bigus_D's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cwood View Post
    It also eliminates the CLEO signature and the fingerprints.
    Why NOT setup a trust then? Is it just the cost and trouble of the legal forms?

  8. #28
    Grandmaster Scutter01's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigus_D View Post
    Why NOT setup a trust then? Is it just the cost and trouble of the legal forms?
    As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I opted not to due to the additional expense and paperwork. The suppressor is only a $250 item. To add another $60-$90 for software or $400-$600 for a trust lawyer to draw up the paperwork exceeded my budget. If NFA becomes a habit for me, I'll end up doing it.


    Meh.

  9. #29
    Grandmaster Cwood's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scutter01 View Post
    As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I opted not to due to the additional expense and paperwork. The suppressor is only a $250 item. To add another $60-$90 for software or $400-$600 for a trust lawyer to draw up the paperwork exceeded my budget. If NFA becomes a habit for me, I'll end up doing it.

    you said "if" like it was a possibility that it would not be come a habit!

  10. #30
    Grandmaster Scutter01's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cwood View Post
    you said "if" like it was a possibility that it would not be come a habit!
    Hey, if I skipped the trust to save $60 on software, you can bet it's not gonna be a habit!


    Meh.

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