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  1. #1
    Grandmaster doddg's Avatar

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    Use of Pay Pal to "pre-pay" before FTF meeting

    I got the usual question/scam approach on Armslist:
    "Hello,i'm interested in this gun,i will take it for the said price if you can assure me it's in good condition, I live in Florida and i have an FFL who will receive it for me. What's your shipping cost to 34652?????"
    Exact words I have received in the past & I was told to "Beware," RUN," or some version thereof.

    I just respond: "Only FTF" and it reminds me not to forget to put in my ad, "only FTF" so I don't feel obligated to respond.

    The use of Pay Pal is a safe option I'm assuming.
    I have used Pay Pal a couple of times when a person really wants something but is out out town at the time, and they don't want to take a chance of missing out on the deal & they can't get to me for a few days (even weeks sometimes).
    The risk is all their's when I do such with me having their money in my bank account and said product still in my hands as well.

    I have time to see the money transferred to my checking account before I release the product, so it can't be undone in case it was a scam of some sort.
    Is my assumption above is correct?

    Just this am I had a person I've emailed back and forth for 3 weeks & talked with on the phone that wants to buy a gun but lives 3 hrs. away and can't get it until before Xmas when he'll be traveling by my location.
    He texted just this am asking if I had Pay Pay.
    Red flag #1 since I thought: why didn't he volunteer that 3 weeks ago?
    Red flag #2 since it is the weekend and when I try to transfer the money from my Pay Pal account to the bank, the Pay Pal transfers would not take place till banks open on Monday, I assume.

    I could tell him Pay Pal would be fine since he's not picking up the gun for another week and a half, unless there is a down side I'm not aware of.
    I didn't know whether it was possible for a person to undo a Pay Pal transaction and have the money withdrawn from your account claiming fraud?
    I can't imagine since I haven't heard about Pay Pal being tenuous with transactions.
    A friend of mine says Pay Pal has control of your Pay Pal account and could take the money from your account if fraud was claimed, but if I had transferred the money to my bank account, it seems that couldn't happen.
    And, since the person isn't getting the gun for another week & a half, there would be no gain on his end.

    Bottom line: is this a possible scam?
    Will he mysteriously be available to pick up the gun before I can get the money transferred from my Pay Pal account to the bank next Monday?
    Hadn't heard of this type of scam.

  2. #2
    Snowman's Blocker aka Bandit mcapo's Avatar

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    Use of Pay Pal to "pre-pay" before FTF meeting

    Ok. Too much too unpack in your post.

    Just wait till he is near you and do it FTF in CASH so you can do (what I consider) proper due diligence in determining he is proper person to buy a firearm.

    The money from a firearm sale isnít enough to create worries and headaches. If itís not safe, easy and legal - move on.
    Last edited by mcapo; 12-14-2019 at 13:46.
    Don't blame me....it is Turbo's fault.

  3. #3
    Grandmaster Expat's Avatar

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    Use of PayPal for guns is forbidden I thought. I don't think they will help anyone and will cancel your account.

  4. #4
    Grandmaster doddg's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcapo View Post
    Ok. Too much too unpack in your post.
    Just wait till he is near you and do it FTF so you can do (what I consider) proper due diligence in determining he is proper person to buy a firearm.
    The money from a firearm sale isnít enough to create worries and headaches. If itís not safe, easy and legal - move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by mcapo View Post
    Ok. Too much too unpack in your post.
    Just wait till he is near you and do it FTF so you can do (what I consider) proper due diligence in determining he is proper person to buy a firearm.
    The money from a firearm sale isnít enough to create worries and headaches. If itís not safe, easy and legal - move on.

    I actually thought of you since my post was so long, and you would always tell me you would read 3-4 lines and were done.
    I usually go back to trim up a long post since I know most won't wade through the verbiage: feeling lazy this am!
    Good point about the FTF: I would not sell w/o seeing the LTCH, but when we got together and "forgot" to have it on him, that could get messy.
    Never thought of that: thanks!



    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Use of PayPal for guns is forbidden I thought. I don't think they will help anyone and will cancel your account.
    I never had heard of that in any conversations I've had here about Pay Pal in the past: duly noted!
    Thanks for the heads-up! Never thought of that as well.
    I do come from the generation where in High School, guys had a gun rack in their pick ups (probably loaded?) and it wasn't an issue.
    Simpler more sane times.

  5. #5
    Plinker rb288's Avatar

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    I have not had any problems with non "ftf" sales.
    I just tell them to send check, money order, etc and won't ship until funds have cleared. And unless it's a C&R firearm going to an 03 C&R license holder, it goes to a FFL.
    BTW, you can "gift" someone money on PayPal, but any mention of guns or firearms will be shut down immediately.

  6. #6
    Grandmaster Expat's Avatar

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    https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...ptableuse-full

    You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
    1. violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation.
    2. relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) cigarettes, (d) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (e) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods, (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory or the financial exploitation of a crime, (g) items that are considered obscene, (h) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (i) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.
    3. relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f) are associated with the sale of traveler's checks or money orders, (h)involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses, (i) involve certain credit repair, debt settlement services, credit transactions or insurance activities, or (k) involve offering or receiving payments for the purpose of bribery or corruption.
    4. involve the sales of products or services identified by government agencies to have a high likelihood of being fraudulent.

  7. #7
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    "NO".....not until I run it across my hands and eyes. "NO"

    Just tell them cash is king. If that does not work shine it on. Seriously.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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  8. #8
    Da PinkFather jedi's Avatar

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    PayPal is **NOT** a safe option for any type of transaction if you are the seller.

    As others have noted you cant use it for firearm related transactions. But more on that in a bit.

    Sellers using paypal take on all the risk when using paypal.
    If you sell item A and the buyer send you funds via PayPal the buyer has 3 ways of sending you funds.

    1. Using the credit card option on paypal
    2. Sending funds from his bank account to his paypal account to your paypal account.
    3. Sending funds from his paypal account to yours.

    Scammers will send you the funds.
    Then a week later will open a dispute with paypal saying they never got the item.

    At that poi t paypal will place a hold on your account and remove the funds from it. Until YOU can submit proof that you sent the item.

    A receipt of mailing is NOT enough. You need to show signature confirmation that the BUYERS actually signed for item.

    Now you might say well I moved the funds right away from my paypal account to my checking. So what? You have the 2 accounts linked and paypal can remove the funds from your bank account!

    Say you have checking linked to paypal and also have a savings linked to checking. So you move paypal funds to checkik and then to savings to make sure it's safe. Does not matter all that will occur is the checking account t will be short so you ha e just bounced a "e-check" as well. So now the bank slaps you with a fee to cover your under funded checkjng.

    If the buyer used a credit card you get slapped with the charge back fee for that.

    99% of transactions are between honest people and this does not occur. But that 1% makes it gghrrr to use paypal as they know the tricks and paypal is never on the side of the seller. Never!

  9. #9
    Plinker

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    That screams SCAM.

    I had a a guy try to sell a me rifle on Armslist that appeared to be in-state, but when contacted he said he was out of town on business and tried to talk me into sending him money and that he'd send it (red flag). Then on top of it, he provided a pic of his drivers license to show me he was legit. Well the problem was that the phone number he was texted from was a Florida number and the DL had been photo shopped, you could see the areas where he had altered them! I called him out on it and then contacted the state police!

    Also had a guy contact me trying to sell me a re-welded demilled M14 receiver. Sounded cool, but I know they are illegal to have. Said no to that one, pretty sure that was a ATF sting...

    If it doesn't sound or feel right run away from it!

  10. #10
    Sharpshooter Old Dog's Avatar

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    cash in hand, when ever he can get your way, if you are willing to wait!

    The colors red, white, and blue stand for freedom until they are flashing behind you.

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