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Thread: Laird's Law...

  1. #1
    Marksman

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    Laird's Law...

    Read this report of what happened in Florida, how is Laird's Law different? Or is it?

    https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/flo...#axzz5x9iKXQBc

  2. #2
    Grandmaster KellyinAvon's Avatar

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    .
    INGOer #25,448

  3. #3
    Grandmaster Leadeye's Avatar

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    So a judge makes a mistake in issuing a restraining order and faces no accountability for they're mistake. Seems to me this fellow should have the option of at least suing the judge for this.
    Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering Kaboom.

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  4. #4
    Grandmaster DeadeyeChrista'sdad's Avatar

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    Ask Counselor Freeman about judicial accountability....
    I hear They call him Flipper. Yes... yes, I'm serious.

  5. #5
    Expert MarkC's Avatar

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    With very few exceptions judges are absolutely immune. Unfortunately, Kirk has had the opportunity to explore the long reach of this absolute immunity for judicial acts.

    The article does not give us much information about Florida's Red Flag law, and it is unclear what kind and quantity of behavior is sufficient to support imposing a Red Flag order.

    Instead, the horror story here is because whoever identified the subject of the order did a sloppy job, so the fault lies with law enforcement and whoever brought the action that led to the order.

  6. #6
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    With very few exceptions judges are absolutely immune. Unfortunately, Kirk has had the opportunity to explore the long reach of this absolute immunity for judicial acts.

    The article does not give us much information about Florida's Red Flag law, and it is unclear what kind and quantity of behavior is sufficient to support imposing a Red Flag order.

    Instead, the horror story here is because whoever identified the subject of the order did a sloppy job, so the fault lies with law enforcement and whoever brought the action that led to the order.
    As I understand the article, law enforcement agreed the subject was not the one identified in the injunction but because bureaucracy started the paperwork, even to the wrong guy common sense cannot override the system...

  7. #7
    Expert MarkC's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingomike View Post
    As I understand the article, law enforcement agreed the subject was not the one identified in the injunction but because bureaucracy started the paperwork, even to the wrong guy common sense cannot override the system...
    That's unfortunately true; the court order is the court order, and it is going to take a subsequent order to correct the mis-identification.

    Also, if I were advising the officers in this case, I would have advised them to not execute the order against the misidentified person, and worked to notify the court that the wrong individual is identified in the order.

    Someone got sloppy identifying the subject of the order.

    Someone mindlessly decided they needed to enforce the order and take the wrong person's firearms.

    There is a lot of fail going on here, but there is not enough information in the article to know if the Florida Red Flag laws are too onerous or overbroad. Some people believe that any Red Flag law is wrong and/or unconstitutional, and, for them, this story is part of their evidence. These are the same kinds of law enforcement errors that get the wrong person identified in an arrest warrant, get the wrong house invaded in a search warrant, etc. They happen, but governmental systems are comprised of and operated by people, and mistakes will occur.

    It is up to those people in the system to be diligent and minimize the errors.

  8. #8
    Grandmaster DoggyDaddy's Avatar

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    Just saw a blurb on the evening news (WTHR) about the "warning signs" that could warrant "see something, say something" (aka red flag)...

    1. Stockpiling ammunition or guns... (I don't think it was number 1, but it was what caught my attention).


    Uh oh...

  9. #9
    Grandmaster KellyinAvon's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingomike View Post
    Read this report of what happened in Florida, how is Laird's Law different? Or is it?

    https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/flo...#axzz5x9iKXQBc
    A couple things at work here, this is not along the lines of the Laird Law. Suspended Florida concealed carry license because of a domestic violence restraining order. The domestic violence aspect is because the landlord rented a room to the tenant and girlfriend. "Domestic" isn't limited to spouse, love interest, etc. so the owner of the property counted because of proximity (would be my guess.)

    The guy who had to go to half the county offices: has a very common name (three in fact) and bureaucrats did a less-than half-assed job.

    Now to further compound the levels of fail here, we have law enforcement officers who now know this isn't the individual subject to the restraining order, but still want to confiscate the individual's firearms. They are too stupid to be LEOs and should be fired immediately.
    INGOer #25,448

  10. #10
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoggyDaddy View Post
    Just saw a blurb on the evening news (WTHR) about the "warning signs" that could warrant "see something, say something" (aka red flag)...

    1. Stockpiling ammunition or guns... (I don't think it was number 1, but it was what caught my attention).


    Uh oh...
    Is there a difference between collecting/acquiring as to stockpiling. Choice of words are very very important when setting the soccer moms and she-men loose on the populace.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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