Mistaken Identity????

[phatgemi]

This happened in Cincinnati over the weekend. News now coming out from interviews allude to possibility that the biker guarding the door of the establishment felt imminent danger approaching for him and his group. What wasn't mentioned in the article or video (but was mentioned in other radio news on 700 WLW) was that the two officers were bigger black men, in dirty civilian clothes, wore ski masks over their faces and were approaching with guns drawn. Guessing the "guard" felt a threat to himself and the rest of the club. I don't hang in bars anymore but guessing that could be a reasonable theory. A bad incident to be sure. Watch the video listed in the article. What wasn't shown was the interview with the lawyer for the motorcycle group.

700WLW - THE BIG ONE

 

[mrjarrell]

If he didn't see the uniformed cops and only saw the plain clothes with their masks on, I don't blame him. I'd be tempted to shoot, too. This is one of the main reasons that cops should never be allowed to cover their faces. Officer safety is a BS excuse all around. If you're wearing a mask the majority of the public perceives you as the bad guy and rightly so.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i dont believe in mask or military uniforms on police period. all police should wear full police uniforms. they arent supposed to be dressed like civilians, office workers, gang bangers, or military, in my opinion.

If the guy knew he was shooting at police then he deserved what he got. and i wish the cops a speedy recovery.

If the guy didnt know they were police because they had mask on and no visible badge, and guns drawn then he was in the right in my opinion and this should be rectified somehow. unfortunately it can never be taken back if he was wronged.

I think its way too early to speculate and totaly blame the police at this point. something that I question is why did other patrons obey the orders and not one guy? It makes me suspect the guy knew who they were. (ok im speculating a little just based on very limited info)

i do think its alittle bit weird how they arent interviewing the cops because they are on medication, where with civilians they would be knocking down the hospital door to take statements. so thats a little double standardish in my opinion. AAR's are best fresh, not after you have time to think.

 

[public servant]

i dont believe in mask or military uniforms on police period. all police should wear full police uniforms. they arent supposed to be dressed like civilians, office workers, gang bangers, or military, in my opinion.

Care to explain your opinion?

 

[j706]

Care to explain your opinion?

Yea really...this outta be good. Stand by for the police bashing because I am sure it will be forthcoming.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Care to explain your opinion?

I am not he, and I don't take quite the black and white (pun intended) position, but when exercising the authority of the State, an agent needs to be readily identifiable as an agent of the State. This is for two main reasons. One is so that citizenry has the opportunity to acknowledge the authority of the State and to submit to it, and two so that anyone who is attempting to falsely use the authority of the State who is not an agent of the State takes the risk of being publicly discovered.

I am not a cop basher. My GF was a state trooper and is still in LE. I have a lot of respect for the job and for the people who try in good faith to execute that job. Issues I have with the State and its authoritarian leanings I place firmly in the lap of the State. But as a citizen of the State, for whatever that means anymore, it is my firm conviction that if the State is going to use force against me to enforce its laws or regulations, that I need to be as sure as possible that those agents are indeed acting with proper authority. When it becomes impossible to tell during the stress of the moment if an attacker is actually law enforcement officers, or if they are common criminals, then the citizenry is unduly placed in harm's way. Someone who knowingly harms an agent of the State acting with due authority deserves whatever happens to them. But if they cannot make that distinction then the State bears the responsibility.

It's a simple fact that that means that LEOs may have a harder time enforcing the laws, but if ease of LE means that innocent citizenry are placed in harms way, THAT is unacceptable to me. An officer harmed in the line of duty is tragic, but that is part of the risk of the job. An innocent citizen harmed by the State in order to lessen risk to the officers is unconscionable.

 

[00BlasterResto]

Yea really...this outta be good. Stand by for the police bashing because I am sure it will be forthcoming.

Defensive, as usual.......

 

[rmabrey]

I agree with Ranger and SHibumseeker here, even in any random event where there plain closed officers are wearing mask and holding guns, I would see that as a threat. My mind is not going to process that MAYBE they are police officers in mask.

 

[public servant]

Defensive, as usual.......

You get that way after a while of being ridiculed and demeaned.

 

[shibumiseeker]

You get that way after a while of being ridiculed and demeaned.

Yeah, there are those that do that here and in the course of your job. But you also have many, many of us who have a lot of respect for the job and the officers who perform the job to the best of your ability, and we often speak up against the bashers.

Part of the job is enduring public abuse. It sucks, I've been there (not in LE but in EMS and SAR), but it comes with the territory. The best you can do is comport yourself in a professional manner. Those of us who respect you will respect you more for it. Those who just think you're JBTs won't be swayed no matter what you do.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Care to explain your opinion?

I agree with Ranger. Our military wears uniforms that distinguish and identify from other nation's militaries. The reason is twofold. So you know who your friends are, and you know who your enemy is. The protections afforded by the Geneva Convention are predicated on identifying one's self to a particular military structure. Failure to wear a distinctive uniform results in the loss of those protections and immunities.

Now on the homefront side. I hope no one confuses me with being a cop basher. Come knock on my door in a uniform and with blinky blinky lights and tell me we're going to jail, and we're going to jail. I have no quarrell, no reason to fight. Pull up to my home in a black van and kick in the door wearing black ninja pajamas, and I'm going to see home invaders, not cops. I'll put up a hell of a fight. I probably won't hear much of what's said. Yeah, I'll likely be shot. Yeah, I'll be likely be dead. I won't be the only one.

This isn't some false bravado said to be macho. I don't mean to sound disrespectful at all. I generally support cops. But when they don't look like cops, bad things can, and will, happen.

 

[public servant]

Yeah, there are those that do that here and in the course of your job. But you also have many, many of us who have a lot of respect for the job and the officers who perform the job to the best of your ability, and we often speak up against the bashers.

Part of the job is enduring public abuse. It sucks, I've been there (not in LE but in EMS and SAR), but it comes with the territory. The best you can do is comport yourself in a professional manner. Those of us who respect you will respect you more for it. Those who just think you're JBTs won't be swayed no matter what you do.

I agree completely.

 

[samot]

I love Cops ?

 

[ProLibertate]

i dont believe in mask or military uniforms on police period. all police should wear full police uniforms. they arent supposed to be dressed like civilians, office workers, gang bangers, or military, in my opinion.

What exactly is a "full police uniform"?

For my department, we wear a tactical BDU style uniform for patrol, but a patch of our badge and the word "police" are clearly and readily visible. I am not aware of any departments where this is not the case.

It is simply not practical to wear a "Class A" style uniform and high-gloss corofram dress shoes, while chasing suspects through alleys and over fences. I assure you, I am perfectly capable of fighting crime in an upstanding manner without wearing a tie and shiny buttons.

Does your logic apply to undercover officers, such as narcotics investigators as well? What about off-duty officers? Should we not be able to intervene in a crime in progress if we are in civilian attire? Just curious where you're coming from.

 

[rmabrey]

What exactly is a "full police uniform"?

For my department, we wear a tactical BDU style uniform for patrol, but a patch of our badge and the word "police" are clearly and readily visible. I am not aware of any departments where this is not the case.

It is simply not practical to wear a "Class A" style uniform and high-gloss corofram dress shoes, while chasing suspects through alleys and over fences. I assure you, I am perfectly capable of fighting crime in an upstanding manner without wearing a tie and shiny buttons.

Does your logic apply to undercover officers, such as narcotics investigators as well? What about off-duty officers? Should we not be able to intervene in a crime in progress if we are in civilian attire? Just curious where you're coming from.

I think he means something like this

Thats a swat team, but how is anyone supposed to know that

 

[ProLibertate]

Come knock on my door in a uniform and with blinky blinky lights and tell me we're going to jail, and we're going to jail. I have no quarrell, no reason to fight. Pull up to my home in a black van and kick in the door wearing black ninja pajamas, and I'm going to see home invaders, not cops. I'll put up a hell of a fight. I probably won't hear much of what's said. Yeah, I'll likely be shot. Yeah, I'll be likely be dead. I won't be the only one.

LOL! I see where you're coming from, brother. But, my department's "black ninja pajamas" say "POLICE" in 8" tall white letters on the front and back. A suspect would be hard pressed to convince anyone that he didn't know we were the fuzz...

Besides, many people seem to be overlooking the fact that if the SWAT team is at your house, it's not for a speeding ticket.

 

[ProLibertate]

I think he means something like this

Thats a swat team, but how is anyone supposed to know that

Fair enough. I agree that there should be some visible identification on they're uniforms.

I still hold to my last posting, that if SWAT is called out, it's not usually that much of a shock to the suspect... They usually know that committing felonies brings with it the potential for police wanting to have a chat with them...

 

[public servant]

You have to admit though...it's kind of hard to hide in the dark with those 8" white reflective tape letters on your back and chest.

It might as well just be this...

 

[jbombelli]

I don't really know what happened here.

But all I can say is, anybody who puts on grungy clothes, masks, and walks into a bar where 1%'ers are hanging out, carrying guns in their hands, is looking for a gunfight, whether they realize it or not. That's the kind of thing rival club members do when they're looking to shoot a few people, or thugs do when they're looking to commit a robbery. Not only would a gunfight be predictable, I would flat expect one.

I'm not saying cops have to walk around in dress uniforms, but I AM saying they should look like cops. If you want to dress like a thug, and act like a thug, don't be surprised when you get treated like the thug you're pretending to be.

 

[rmabrey]

Fair enough. I agree that there should be some visible identification on they're uniforms.

I still hold to my last posting, that if SWAT is called out, it's not usually that much of a shock to the suspect... They usually know that committing felonies brings with it the potential for police wanting to have a chat with them...

yes but on the slim chance they got the wrong address, some type of visible identification will be helpful. Add ski mask to that equation and a ot of people might have a bad day