black powder carrying

[Timjoebillybob]

So now that I know its legal to carry a BP pistol and the pros and cons of them. I still want to know WHY you would want to

As I stated above for some that may be the only way they can carry or even own a firearm. For others it could be just because they like them. Or they think they look nice or cool. Or you know Halloween is coming up, they may want to carry one as part of their costume. Or they go to bp shoots and would rather carry one on the way there and back rather than carry another gun. Or it could be just because they want to and no other reason.

 

[Jack Ryan]

A few things:

1. With today's political environment, I would not. The police barely know about our laws regarding open carry or even carry in general. Not all, but some. Carrying a BP revolver without a permit is asking for an extended duration of harassment by police that may not know the law difference (or not care) in regards to pistol and BP pistol.
2. ONE of the reasons for BP to metallic cartridge was fast loading, but also powder moisture issues. "Wild" Bill Hickok said he would never carry a gun unless he loaded it that morning (according to some History Channel special). He regularly discharged, cleaned and reloaded his pistol every day. He was a trained and practiced gunfighter. Personally, I dont see folks doing that everyday.
3. Coming from a range perspective (i.e. working at one), even the best conditions for loading and weapon cleanliness, BP pistols are spotty in reliability at best. Personally, I would not carry one. Some folks like to gamble. If they get into a revolver fight and succeed with BP, go get a lottery ticket. Once again, a reason why society went to metallic cartridges.
4. As for the OP statement of ".44 blowing someone's head off". .44 is an effective round, but a relatively light, slow moving and "faceless" ball isn't the most effective energy dump. They do make conicals for BP revolvers, but still, VERY slow moving and light for caliber. The .45 LC is an effective cartridge, but don't expect to pull off 1 shot stops with that BP .44!

I had considered carry of a LeMat, but the above stops me.

So for OC if it is a weapon you approve of then the general public's perception of what you are doing is irrelevant. If any thing you are doing them a favor educating them on the vastly superious knowledge the sheeple are unaware of. If fact it's even a public service to educate the law enforcement area of the community who are ignorant of all we have learned here on the internets.

Then jump to a weapon you gained your knowledge of from the history channel and it's not a wise move because law enforcement may not have the same view of your rights as the LAW.

JFYI, I'll take my 45 I loaded last week over over about any 38, 380, mouse or so called pocket guns I can think of with a full load in each with out the slightest hesitation.

Wouldn't feel out gunned at all facing one guy with one 45 colt.

I'm not talking out my hiney about something I saw on the History Channel. I've shot mine through a chrony, in to test media, with both round balls and bullets, many times, at many distances. I've got one in the bedroom on a belt ready to walk out the door right now I loaded about a week ago.

It's not the first thing I'd list as a preference to pick up hearing gun fire out side the house but if it's loaded and handy I wouldn't waste any time looking for something else.

If I pick up that 45 and go looking for some one, they better head to the store to buy a lottery ticket if they get the chance. They'll never know if it was a BP gun or a 45 colt.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I've seen black powder push a .50 caliber bullet all the way through one deer and into another, killing both where they stood. I'd say not too bad, provided the shot goes off and you hit what you are aiming at. As a bonus, you could disappear like a ninja inside the smoke cloud.

You'd have to because if you miss, 50 in BP means one shot and the whole reload process. In any thing but a rifle it's way less power than you are thinking about.

The smoke gives away your postion in any situation where a rifle BP would be an advantage over the 22 revolver.

 

[Jack Ryan]

This is pretty much the only SD application i see here.

for awesome factor

Well if YOU don't see it, it must not exist.

 

[Ramen]

Or it could be just because they want to and no other reason.

Best reason I can think of.

 

[Jack Ryan]

The Remington locks in between chambers, so I load six.

Plus the carbine is in the truck!

Dang, now they know everything.

 

[RichardR]

I have been shooting them long enough (20+ someodd years) that I am fairly confident that if I ever needed to I could probably successfully defend myself with my Colt 1861 BP revolver.

It wouldn't be my first choice though simply because of the already previously mentioned draw backs when compared to modern cartridge firearms, but I don't doubt that I could hit my intended target & put a threat down with it though.

 

[Disposable Heart]

So for OC if it is a weapon you approve of then the general public's perception of what you are doing is irrelevant. If any thing you are doing them a favor educating them on the vastly superious knowledge the sheeple are unaware of. If fact it's even a public service to educate the law enforcement area of the community who are ignorant of all we have learned here on the internets.

Then jump to a weapon you gained your knowledge of from the history channel and it's not a wise move because law enforcement may not have the same view of your rights as the LAW.

JFYI, I'll take my 45 I loaded last week over over about any 38, 380, mouse or so called pocket guns I can think of with a full load in each with out the slightest hesitation.

Wouldn't feel out gunned at all facing one guy with one 45 colt.

I'm not talking out my hiney about something I saw on the History Channel. I've shot mine through a chrony, in to test media, with both round balls and bullets, many times, at many distances. I've got one in the bedroom on a belt ready to walk out the door right now I loaded about a week ago.

It's not the first thing I'd list as a preference to pick up hearing gun fire out side the house but if it's loaded and handy I wouldn't waste any time looking for something else.

If I pick up that 45 and go looking for some one, they better head to the store to buy a lottery ticket if they get the chance. They'll never know if it was a BP gun or a 45 colt.

The only part I had mentioned regarding the History channel was the part regarding Wild Bill Hickock. I am disappointed you took that route. I ramble a bit I suppose and things mash together.

If ALL I had was a BP revolver, then that is all I have. Anything beats bare hands, stick or bananna. But realistically, the exercise of this thread is the everyday CARRY of a BP revolver, which compared to many many modern firearms, it is an antiquated, old and and in many cases, unreliable weapon in conditions where modern firearms and ammo will work.

Round ball is as effective, as well, roundball. I have too chronoed .44 bp revolvers. I DO know what I am talking about. 600-700 FPS with a 120ish gr. round ball isn't confidence inspiring. Once again, if that is ALL I have, then that's that. But, I have quite a bit more modern firepower than a BP and choose to carry it as I believe the best is what MY life is worth. If you life worth a anemic roundball that can be stopped by a sheet of plywood at 7 yards (and yes, Jack, I have fired one into that material before, so dont rag on me about that dude).

Do you have any gel test results (as you had stated in your rebuttal) you would like to share us?

In regards to folks spewing on about "If I need more than 5 round, then I should not be there anyways..." Relying upon a statistic will only make you one. It is pretty foolish to go out in life and expect the world to be clockwork. Not only by carrying only 5 rounds (or having a weapon that can only discharge 5 rounds before LENGTHY reload time) are you making the world a VERY dangerous place for yourself, but also carrying a weapon with a higher than technological norm for unreliability will add to the danger.

 

[Sailor]

If there is a better tool for the job why not use it, on something so important?

If you believe that BP is the best tool then, good luck.

 

[CarmelHP]

First and I should of posted this in my other post but... IANAL, TINLA, ETC.
Not how I look at it, a BP firearm is still a firearm under IN law (federal is a different story I believe) The section reference above applies to Chap 2 which is carrying a handgun without a license. Chap 4 deals with violent felons and domestic batterers and firearms in general.
Domestic batterer section is right below that one.


And for moisture issues, I don't know because I have next to none experience with them. But would it be possible to seal them with something like nail polish or similar?

You're correct, a serious violent felon would not be able to legally own or posses black powder firearms.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Round ball is as effective, as well, roundball. I have too chronoed .44 bp revolvers. I DO know what I am talking about. 600-700 FPS with a 120ish gr. round ball isn't confidence inspiring. Once again, if that is ALL I have, then that's that. But, I have quite a bit more modern firepower than a BP and choose to carry it as I believe the best is what MY life is worth. If you life worth a anemic roundball that can be stopped by a sheet of plywood at 7 yards (and yes, Jack, I have fired one into that material before, so dont rag on me about that dude).

Well it sounds like a full test session with documentation is in order. I'll admit it's been a while since I shot 2x4's, phone books and sand buckets with it but it's not been long at all since I clocked them with the chrony and it's easily in 45 acp range on velocity and bullet weight. I can't seem to find any thing I wrote down on it at the moment but I'll look.

I've said as well if I was going out the door to a gun fight I'd take the best I've got for it, probably a shot gun, but a 44-45 BP revolver with full loads is anything but anemic.

It won't take much more than rounding up a little scrap to put holes in plywood.

At this point I'll conceed you have me blocked for the draw, for the moment.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Not a draw, but an interesting project! Why does everything have to be a competition to you folks?!

One thing I would be interested to see is a conical vs. ball out of a BP revolver, then maybe a dum-dummed ball. I remember an item they used to have that was marketed as the newest thing to front stuffers was a tool that put a cross (dum dum) into the lead of a ball projectile. That would make for a cool gel test situation.

All in all, a BP isn't the best, but I will conceed one thing: It will do if that is all you have. ANYTHING ranged is better than close up. A BP pistol has another great use: SHTF. When all my "good ammo" for my "good guns" is gone, then what? One can make BP, caps are cheap and easily stocked away, and projectiles can be made from soft lead with a fire, mold and hard spoon.

 

[Jack Ryan]

One thing I would be interested to see is a conical vs. ball out of a BP revolver, then maybe a dum-dummed ball. I remember an item they used to have that was marketed as the newest thing to front stuffers was a tool that put a cross (dum dum) into the lead of a ball projectile. That would make for a cool gel test situation.

Not a test or anything but just something that happened by what ever... I have stuffed so much powder in the cylinder before that I couldn't get the ball, yes I've done it with a bullet too, to seat low enough for the cylinder to turn. If it won't then there's no way to fire it out.

So I filed the end of both projectiles done as close as I dared to the cylinder and then scraped the last few high spots off with a "shoe" knife until it would operate mechanicaly. Capped 'em and fired 'em just like any other load and never noticed the slightest difference from any other normal shot other than a lot of work.

Needless to say I nearly always shoot as near to max loads as I can and still get the bullet in. In my gun I consider it a reduced load if I dump the powder with the measure covered with my finger since the depression it causes can be measured in room to spare on top of the bullet.

 

[Delmar]

Dang, now they know everything.

They might not know where I parked the truck?

 

[Delmar]

The answer to the question is...
It is darn fun to carry. I'm not saying a backup gun isn't a good idea!

 

[Zephri]

Did you guys really just get into a debate as the weather bp guns were still effective?

That's too funny. People haven been using them to kill eachother effectively for hundreds of years now, the only problem was accuracy which has long since been fixed.

 

[Delmar]

Why bother with a revolver. Just get a brace of these and hang them from your belt. .62 caliber ought to make a fine hole.

Sea Service Pistols ( Nelson's Royal Navy )

Nice! but if I were going to go that route I would go with a pair of SxS models. This one is a .62 cal as well!

I wonder what % of cops know that is legal to carry without a LTCH?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I've got a question if anyone knows the answer. Since BP firearms are exempt from most fed regs I believe. Would it be legal to carry one on a acoe property?

 

[Hoosier8]

Well, I wouldn't carry one on a regular basis but for a carry event, it would be a hoot. I met some of my friends after we all read One Second After where the main character used a cap and ball Dragoon so had to pick up a holster. Cabelas had a visa card special with $25 in credits so I got the holster and belt for $15 for my 1851 Navy repro. It was surprisingly easy to carry it cross draw while driving my little car and much easier to get to.

One of the guys is against firearms so when I walked in and showed him, he said there were children present, so I told him I promised not to shoot them. I didn't have it loaded though because I would have had to have someplace to shoot it to unload it, which IMHO would be the downside of carrying it.

 

[RichardR]

Here is my CVA repo of a Colt 1860 that I've owned for about 22 years now, it's a serious hoot to shoot.