West Memphis Police Now Using AR's on Traffic Stops

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • sjstill

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    46   0   0
    Mar 24, 2008
    1,580
    38
    Indy (west)
    Oh, the horror of the above!!! :laugh:

    I think the problem here is that everyone just automatically thinks that an AR slinged on the body = at the ready. Well, that may be true to some extent, but last time I checked, they don't make holsters for long guns. Technically, most cops OC, so should we complain and make cops CC their guns, so they are less "at the ready?"

    I do think the chief in this case is allowing some emotion to guide his logic, but at the same time, I'm not seeing him demand his officers deploy the rifles. To me, this policy is fine. There is nothing wrong with giving an officer an option to get a weapon that:
    #1: Has more ammo capacity.
    #2: Better accuracy.
    #3: More stopping power.

    It seems that some folks here are just automatically expecting every W. Memphis PD officer to be wearing their rifle for the entire shift. If not that, then on every traffic stop an officer will have a rifle. I doubt that will happen, but depending on the officers, I guess it could happen. Many are likely going to leave the rifle in the car, unless they have suspicions of danger while involved in the stop.

    That last sentence sounds an awful lot like common sense.
     

    steveh_131

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 3, 2009
    10,046
    83
    Porter County
    Maybe the problem isn't a well-armed police force.

    Maybe the problem is a well-armed police force that is used primarily to collect arbitrary taxes from motorists.
     

    Disposable Heart

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 99.6%
    246   1   1
    Apr 18, 2008
    5,805
    99
    Greenfield, IN
    I can see a definite line here, civvie and LEO! :D

    I want to echo something full-auto said: Training. I have absolutely NO qualms with any officer having a rifle in his vehicle or on his person. None. I have rifles, and shotguns and pistols, as do they. If I am not doing something stupid, they have no reason to flip out and riddle my car full of 5.56 holes. Civilian's book of rules #1: Get home at the end of my "shift" :D Soem claim facism but what are they doing to attract so much attention during a routine traffic stop. Some folks make their own hell. Sheep mentality? Shove it, tired of your fearmongering BS.

    BUT: What concerns me is the training level and common sense I hear of on occasion regarding officers and their weapons every so often. An officer's flashlight runs out of juice so he uses his weapon light (with weapon still attached) to shine into car on normal traffic stop. Officer who is horsing around with his gun in a bathroom sends a round out "accidentally". Police officer in Detroit wastes a kid in their home while "struggling" with a "suspect". FBI sniper shoots woman and child in cabin during illegal raid. Hit percentages of officer's with their small arms during stressful situations. Etc... Please note: I am not saying all police are like this, but given what I have seen on news or heard, these "accidents" do occur.

    Do police need these weapons? Potentially, yes. We only have our modern violent society to blame. The North Hollywood shootout was a prime example. Departments clamored for patrol rifles and training after that. How many times has something like that happened since then? Rarely, but with rifles already in field, they have proven their worth in violent situations for police. Sort of like the race for .40 after the Miami shootout, they needed something and quick after ONE incident, but a well publicized incident and one that could be solved with better weaponry, yes, but better training, BIG YES. These are generally kneejerk reactions to situations that occur RARELY (if at all), but the deployment of better weaponry to officer's prepares for a future incident. Maybe in 5-10 years, a citizen with a phaser rifle will stun up a school and the police will need phaser ablative armor. But, it will prevent deaths (or stunnings :D ) in future events. It's events that have not occurred that will shape weapons and tactics development in the future.

    I hear of police officers skipping their inservice or qualifications, yet still make the force year after year. I have met other officers (not you Steve :D ) that could not shoot worth a hoot, but still are on the force. Granted, most officers never use their weapon. Good. But, I, as a citizen, would like to see better training if they are to deploy more high tech or destructive weaponry in the field, to keep collatoral damage and civilian death to a minimum. It's a matter of statistics: That one officer who cannot shoot well or fight well will become a **** magnet and do something they were not "trained" for. :twocents:
     

    Blackhawk2001

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jun 20, 2010
    8,199
    113
    NW Indianapolis
    Interesting discussion. FWIW, I've heard that IPD has some of the best firearms training/inservice training in the nation. The IPD/MSCD training team certainly seemed to try to be that way when I was a Special Deputy; I looked forward to our 2X firearms inservice qualifications.

    The one thing I read in the comments of the article (and I'm surprised no one else mentioned it) is that one commenter said his department issues AK-74s to any officer who doesn't buy his own AR. That's the first time I've heard of any LEA issuing AKs.
     

    ATOMonkey

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 15, 2010
    7,635
    48
    Plainfield
    I don't see the big deal. A pistol makes people just as dead as a rifle. No one gets bent out of shape about having a pistol "at the ready" during a traffic stop.

    It's not like having a rifle at the ready deals out instant death if you just look at it.
     

    Disposable Heart

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 99.6%
    246   1   1
    Apr 18, 2008
    5,805
    99
    Greenfield, IN
    The one thing I read in the comments of the article (and I'm surprised no one else mentioned it) is that one commenter said his department issues AK-74s to any officer who doesn't buy his own AR. That's the first time I've heard of any LEA issuing AKs.

    That is pretty interesting, considering the media image of the AK (3rd world hellhole totin' the things and "criminals" using them, MEDIA image, not OUR conception of the AK). One would figure they would issue the 47 instead of the 74 for ammo and magazine concerns. Wonder "what department"? Not saying he is full of it, but realistically, has anyone in the police business ever heard of such a thing? :dunno:
     

    cordex

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jun 24, 2008
    818
    18
    Should cops have ready access to long-arms in addition to their handguns? Assuming proper training, absolutely!
    Should cops pull them on every single traffic stop? Absolutely not!
    Are West Memphis cops planning on pulling them out on every single traffic stop? Of course not.

    Doesn't the policy read that if backup is called the backup will be ready with the AR? No problem there - backup will usually be called because the responding officer feels that there is something wrong. Yes, like all government authority it will eventually and repeatedly be abused, and when the backup gets trigger-happy and screws up they should be held accountable. That said, the policy itself - while extreme for most of Indiana - makes a good bit of sense for West Memphis.
     

    Disposable Heart

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 99.6%
    246   1   1
    Apr 18, 2008
    5,805
    99
    Greenfield, IN
    Extreme for Indiana, unless you are in Gary :D

    My question I pose to some of the police here: What ever happened to the good ol' scattergun? Seems to have taken a backseat or a "Well, I have to carry a shotgun because they dont have enough rifles). For shorter ranged precision and short range stopping power, a shotgun with slugs/buck should work. A story from Maine involving an officer shooting a barricaded suspect from 92 yards with a slug, dropping him immediantly really brings to mind how useful a shotgun still is. Even with body armor in play, I still don't see a HUGE difference a rifle plays compared to a shotgun at closer range. I am not saying abandon one for another, I am just wondering why the immediant desire by officer's for rifles? Low recoil? Can't be cost, those ARs are pretty sporty in cost. :D Magazine capacity?

    Rifles, great for police, but what does it offer over a scattergun for reasonable ranges?
     

    SemperFiUSMC

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jun 23, 2009
    3,480
    38
    Extreme for Indiana, unless you are in Gary :D

    My question I pose to some of the police here: What ever happened to the good ol' scattergun? Seems to have taken a backseat or a "Well, I have to carry a shotgun because they dont have enough rifles). For shorter ranged precision and short range stopping power, a shotgun with slugs/buck should work. A story from Maine involving an officer shooting a barricaded suspect from 92 yards with a slug, dropping him immediantly really brings to mind how useful a shotgun still is. Even with body armor in play, I still don't see a HUGE difference a rifle plays compared to a shotgun at closer range. I am not saying abandon one for another, I am just wondering why the immediant desire by officer's for rifles? Low recoil? Can't be cost, those ARs are pretty sporty in cost. :D Magazine capacity?

    Rifles, great for police, but what does it offer over a scattergun for reasonable ranges?

    It's cooler when the video hits youtube.
     
    Last edited:

    Blackhawk2001

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jun 20, 2010
    8,199
    113
    NW Indianapolis
    IIRC, police shotguns are considered a short-ranged weapon by IMPD. We were told the effectiveness of the buckshot round fell off drastically after about 35 yds. I think I remember that the only "slugs" used by IMPD were door breaching rounds. The police carbine, I think, is generally considered sufficient for ranges out to 100 yds (rare in urban areas), has a larger magazine capacity, and better accuracy and obstacle penetration a longer ranges than a shotgun/buckshot combination.
     

    LEaSH

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    43   0   0
    Aug 10, 2009
    5,820
    119
    Indianapolis
    I think I read that same story somewhere also, Vern. Something like the bad guy was holding of cops at a distance with a Sub 2K in .40 I think. Eventually an officer took him out with a slug when their pistols were not as effective.

    Anyways, if cops displaying the EBR's make people uncomfortable, I don't know how to change that. We already know that a rifle openly carried by a law abiding citizen will rile the general public into a whiney, snivelling, call to protect the children. But if a uniformed officer walks up to a minivan EBR at theready, and asks for the papers, it shouldn't be as big of a deal. Unless it's considered 'conditioning'.

    I guess the East Memphis PD will report the results to the FBI and we may or may not see other cities doing the same.

    East Memphis does need a ladies roller derby team, though. It simply is too gritty a place not to have one.
     

    steveh_131

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 3, 2009
    10,046
    83
    Porter County
    Instead of complaining about the weapons they carry, we should complain about the extent of their intrusion into our lives.

    Let's get them out of the tax collecting, speed enforcing, drug confiscating, LTCH checking, citizen harassing, protest-stopping, neck-booting business and have them focus on capturing violent criminals.

    If we do that, I doubt anybody except the violent criminals would complain. Even if they drove around in a damn tank and carried RPG's on their backs.
     

    sjstill

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    46   0   0
    Mar 24, 2008
    1,580
    38
    Indy (west)
    What part of LAW ENFORCEMENT don't you quite understand? Traffic laws need enforced. Drug laws need enforced. Unless and until those laws are repealed, then they will be enforced.
     
    Last edited:

    Site Supporter

    INGO Supporter

    Staff online

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    526,599
    Messages
    9,845,817
    Members
    54,082
    Latest member
    iSeekLight
    Top Bottom