Assange Protected Under 1st Amendment?

[SemperFiUSMC]

Respectfully, your argument is naive to the point of complete silliness. Really? If we were nicer and more open we wouldn't have enemies?

Seriously, if there are unicorns on the planet where you live, don't try to feed them. Your grasp on realism is so tenuous I'm afraid you're incapable of even caring for imaginary creatures.

Don't founder the unicorns.

or feed the trolls.

 

[machete]

Respectfully, your argument is naive to the point of complete silliness. Really? If we were nicer and more open we wouldn't have enemies?

Absolutely!!! Nobody around the world is trying to hurt America,,,theyre trying to hurt American interests,,,huge difference!!!

If we kept our nose in our own business,,,we wouldnt need all these foreign intrigues---foreign wars---foreign bases--and secrets...

 

[Bondhead88]

Everybody loves to talk up Israel, but there is one problem with modeling America after them. Israel does not have a constitution.

Which means the Israeli government has no boundaries. People have no recognized & guaranteed rights. NO RIGHTS!! No right to bear arms. No right to privacy. No right to due process. This is a downright scary idea to any Constitutionalist who appreciates the Founding Fathers.

Letting the Government kill any of its enemies without courts, judges, juries, appeals, evidence, witnesses, et cetera, would mean nobody is safe from the biggest mass murdering body in history. And don't forget that conservatives and many people on this board are probably already on some kind of terrorist watch list.

So... letting secret government agents go around with a "License to Kill" would absolutely be an unconstitutional American Gestapo. If the suspects are truly guilty, then they can be brought in for trial, and the freedom-hating government can abide by the U.S. Constitution every step of the way.

I have no issue with the Government killing a foreign enemy of the state if that person is causing the safety of it's armed forces or civilians or it's allies to be in jeopardy.

In fact I look it as an act of self defense. The Israelis had it right wihen dealing with Hamas.

Every time Hamas announced a new leader publicly they would kill him. it got to the point where they were hiding saying "I am the new leader of the Hamas, I'm not telling you who I am but I am the head."

It's hard to be effective with that type of situation.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

WikiLeaks founder Assange suspected of sex crimes – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Assange has an arrest warrant issued therough Interpol for allegedly committing sex crimes. I hope the CIA finds him first.

 

[CombatVet]

I listed the dictionary definition of espionage in a previous post. I even highlighted it above. Tell my how I'm 100% wrong.

And you're wrong about him committing espeanage. He didn't hack the cables they were leaked by our own people. That's why your wrong.

I'm pissed at both of them. Read above out of this thread. He's no journalist. He's an America-hating hacker with an audience. And a pedophile and rapist, if you believe the Interpol arrest warrants out on him.

I could care less if he's a pedophile, rapist. He's not committed those crimes in my country so it's none of my business.

Am I supposed to be afraid of Internet threats? Yawn.

You're my hero dude, seriously. Keep trolling some where else.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

And you're wrong about him committing espeanage. He didn't hack the cables they were leaked by our own people. That's why your wrong.

I could care less if he's a pedophile, rapist. He's not committed those crimes in my country so it's none of my business.

You're my hero dude, seriously. Keep trolling some where else.

If you don't understand words straight out of the dictionary I can't help you.

Don't need to be anybody's hero. Keep looking, I'm sure there's one out there for you.

 

[John Galt]

"The espionage is aimed at the United States of America, and America is the victim (I HATE the V word but it is appropriate). The people. The collective. Not the government. The government is not harmed in the least." - SemperFiUSMC

What you define as "espionage" can be construed as "exposing" by another. I stated that I did not agree with what has happened, only that I understand his motives. Action begets reaction.

"I don't trust our government either. Does that mean, however, that we shouldn't care about our own national defense?" - dross

Defense against whom? What about "domestic" enemies? I view the actions by what our government is doing to be an assault on our Natural Rights and inherent, God-given freedom. Our currency is being OPENLY debased and we are reallocating TRILLIONS to banks that should have been shut down years ago due to fraud. Look up Section 19 of the Coinage Act of 1792 and see what this would have gotten you back then. Our health care system? $20 for an aspirin in a hospital and 6 months worth of wages to fix a broken arm! Government run education, no further comments needed. Look up the Communist Manifesto and see what is one of the requirements for controlling society. The law currently being ran through Congress regarding food "regulation", hmmm!

There you have it, health care, education, finance, constant "bailouts", and control of the food supply, all controlled by a government that has kept us perpetually at war, scared, controls our health care, education, and now we're in debt up to our eyeballs with millions dependent upon some type of "help" program, controlled by none other than who? Our government!

I love America and will do everything in my power to see that the America that was INTENDED is the one that prevails! I am not some extremist, only someone that wants to enjoy life, help those that I choose to help, and leave the world a better place for my children.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

Sorry for the rant, but I am concerned about what is inevitable.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

"The espionage is aimed at the United States of America, and America is the victim (I HATE the V word but it is appropriate). The people. The collective. Not the government. The government is not harmed in the least." - SemperFiUSMC

What you define as "espionage" can be construed as "exposing" by another. I stated that I did not agree with what has happened, only that I understand his motives. Action begets reaction.

"I don't trust our government either. Does that mean, however, that we shouldn't care about our own national defense?" - dross

Defense against whom? What about "domestic" enemies? I view the actions by what our government is doing to be an assault on our Natural Rights and inherent, God-given freedom. Our currency is being OPENLY debased and we are reallocating TRILLIONS to banks that should have been shut down years ago due to fraud. Look up Section 19 of the Coinage Act of 1792 and see what this would have gotten you back then. Our health care system? $20 for an aspirin in a hospital and 6 months worth of wages to fix a broken arm! Government run education, no further comments needed. Look up the Communist Manifesto and see what is one of the requirements for controlling society. The law currently being ran through Congress regarding food "regulation", hmmm!

There you have it, health care, education, finance, constant "bailouts", and control of the food supply, all controlled by a government that has kept us perpetually at war, scared, controls our health care, education, and now we're in debt up to our eyeballs with millions dependent upon some type of "help" program, controlled by none other than who? Our government!

I love America and will do everything in my power to see that the America that was INTENDED is the one that prevails! I am not some extremist, only someone that wants to enjoy life, help those that I choose to help, and leave the world a better place for my children.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

Sorry for the rant, but I am concerned about what is inevitable.

+1 and repped for the statement in bold.

 

[Lex Concord]

I would think Mr. Assange would be relatively easy to destroy without going to the trouble of killing him. Just have the NSA guys download a bunch of kiddie porn on his computer and some Australian state secrets. Then, be a good allie and let our Aussie friends know we believe Mr. Assange is a major trafficker in kiddie porn. When the Aussies seize his computers, they find the kiddie porn and state secrets. Let them take care of the prosecution part.

WikiLeaks founder Assange suspected of sex crimes – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Assange has an arrest warrant issued therough Interpol for allegedly committing sex crimes. I hope the CIA finds him first.

Wow...who knew the CIA read INGO?

They work quickly too!

 

[mrjarrell]

Wow. He's wanted for questioning in Sweden. He's not even charged with anything. Europeans will issue arrest warrants for anything.

 

[antsi]

I don't know enough about exactly what was revealed here to comment on this specific case.

Generally I do agree that governments need to be able to keep some secrets. Like the key code to the strategic arsenal, for instance.

Often, politicians use "state secret" as a way to protect their own reputation, not the actual security of the nation. If it's simply a matter of embarrassment to some elected jerk, it's not a state secret. Trying to use state secrecy apparatus to cover your own idiocy, or for poltiical ends, should be punished just as severely as actual espionage.

Again, I don't know whether these particular leaks fall more into the "really compromise our security" category, or just "embarrassing to our self-styled masters." If it's the former, yes prosecute him. If it's the latter, I have no sympathy at all.

 

[antsi]

stupid server double post.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Assange has the right to PUBLISH anything factual that is not libelous that he pleases....

I don't see anyone making the case that he is publishing BS. Therefore he most likely has the right to do it.

Some (that HATE the gubbamint) will make Assange a celebrity, since he stokes and validates that (often very valid) hatred. Others will see his actions as irresponsible and reckless (which is a valid point) and make him a villain.

Just because you have the RIGHT to do it, does NOT make it the right, nor ethical thing to do.

The person who STEALS the information ENTRUSTED to them and VIOLATES their agreements and the trust placed in them, should get whatever penalty is prescribed for the infraction. All this, of course, once it is PROVEN that they did it. In the case of the Bank information that Assange says he has, they would be terminated from employment. In the case of the soldier, summary execution as a traitor. They KNEW WHAT THE PENALTY WAS FOR WHAT THEY DID WHEN THEY SIGNED UP. Without such information Assange is just a pathetic Swedish wanker with a website....

Assange is the sideshow here. (Sideshow Bob from the Simpsons??? I couldn't resist the comparison.) The issue is where the information came from... follow that.

 

[Hoosier Gun Coat]

mAYBE,,,WE WOULDNT HAVE SO MANY ENEMIES,,,,IF WE LET OUR YES BE OUR YES AND OUR NO be our no???? WE JUST keep the bad cycle going with how we conduct ourselves,,,

With more transparency maybe we wouldnt have so many enemies and we would have a different international reputation???

You cant tell me were on the up and up with everything were doing around the world??? Maybe we should be doing less and needing to keep less secrets...

Im also not cool with the government being in total control over what gets to be secret...
Seems like a recipe for gestapo...

Seriously? Wow . Maybe we should just open our borders and let them walk right in.

 

[kcw12]

Wow, jut wow. Keeping secrets is a good thing now. Now lets abduct people, as long as its good for the country right? I mean really, lets make accidents happen, as long as its good for the country. No trial for anyone, that's the best for the country right?

A government should keep no secrets from there citizens. I can see keeping a war document from public view as long as it endangers a operations success. As soon as said operation is over, the document should be released.

 

[Wink and the Gun]

He's just a member of the "new media", a journalist, for all intents and purposes. Assange didn't steal the information. It was passed onto him by someone. He, in turn, has published some of it and forwarded it to other news agencies, who have published it. This includes American press, as well as foreign press. This has happened many times in the past, (even during "war") and no-one has been prosecuted for it. Certainly no-one has been kidnapped or murdered, to my knowledge. These call from keyboard commandos to murder him are telling, (not saying you have made those calls). They want him dead, but not the NYTimes staff, or Fox News talking heads. Fortunately, if Assange were to ever come to this country, (and I can't see why he would) he would enjoy the protections of our BoR, as a human and as a "journalist". Politicians put soldiers at more risk than these diplomatic leaks, as we've seen with previous leaked documents.

Couldn't you also make the argument that spies aren't stealing the information; they're simply using sources to steal it for them? If you or I had a security clearance and just mishandled the information, particularly TS/SCI stuff (though Assange never got his hands on any of that, from what I understand), then we could go to jail, let alone if we took it and intentionally published it. I'm completely against assassinating him, and you can't accuse him of treason because he's not a US citizen, but I do think he ought to be tried for espionage.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Wow, jut wow. Keeping secrets is a good thing now. Now lets abduct people, as long as its good for the country right? I mean really, lets make accidents happen, as long as its good for the country. No trial for anyone, that's the best for the country right?

A government should keep no secrets from there citizens. I can see keeping a war document from public view as long as it endangers a operations success. As soon as said operation is over, the document should be released.

Let me see if I can make some reasonable analogies here.

If you're playing basketball or baseball, or chess or checkers or any other game involving two or more teams or individuals, there are "rules" to be followed. If you don't follow the rules, your opponent(s) will either stop playing with you, penalize you, or start cheating just like you are. If your opponents are cheating, you are at a disadvantage if you aren't cheating as well.

In most forms of poker or other card games, you avoid showing everyone else your hand. Why? To prevent your opponent from knowing what you have and what you are going to do with it.

If your wife asks you "Does this dress make me look fat?", do you tell her the truth, no matter how much it may harm relations between you?

Governments try to protect information that may help their opponents if it comes out. While the process is often abused, it is a sound policy, in the main, partially because all nations do it. Exposing secret information can provide information concerning methods, personnel, resources, knowledge, and intentions. Governments spend huge amounts of money to discover their allies' and enemies' intentions, capabilities, assessments, and resources. In foreign relations, as in business and many other areas, knowledge is power. It is not in our interests to allow anyone to disseminate our secrets with impunity because it puts us at a disadvantage in our relations with the rest of the world.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Wow, jut wow. Keeping secrets is a good thing now. Now lets abduct people, as long as its good for the country right? I mean really, lets make accidents happen, as long as its good for the country. No trial for anyone, that's the best for the country right?

A government should keep no secrets from there citizens. I can see keeping a war document from public view as long as it endangers a operations success. As soon as said operation is over, the document should be released.

So there's no value in protecting the means of collecting intelligence? It's OK to out an asset that risks their life to provide information as soon as the operation is over? It's OK to publish to the world your assessment of your friends and enemies and their capabilities? Tell an enemy you know about a missle silo? This is what you advocate?

Couldn't you also make the argument that spies aren't stealing the information; they're simply using sources to steal it for them? If you or I had a security clearance and just mishandled the information, particularly TS/SCI stuff (though Assange never got his hands on any of that, from what I understand), then we could go to jail, let alone if we took it and intentionally published it. I'm completely against assassinating him, and you can't accuse him of treason because he's not a US citizen, but I do think he ought to be tried for espionage.

The only reason to assassinate him is because he won't stop doing what he's doing. He's come out now with a statement that Hillary Clinton needs to go. That is certainly open to debate (she was wholly unqualified to start with, but it was the only job they could offer her that they could control her), but he's not a US citizen and none of his f*****g business!

Now it's reported he has at least another couple hundred thousand documents to release. It is insanity that we are talking about this as if it's a good thing. Good people who risked their lives providing us intelligence in Afganistand, Iraq and across the globe are dying because of this guy. It is reducing our ability to gather intelligence that keeps this country safe.

Espionage is the right charge. He is engaging others to spy on the US and using the information gathered through those sources to damage this country.

 

[mrjarrell]

Couldn't you also make the argument that spies aren't stealing the information; they're simply using sources to steal it for them? If you or I had a security clearance and just mishandled the information, particularly TS/SCI stuff (though Assange never got his hands on any of that, from what I understand), then we could go to jail, let alone if we took it and intentionally published it. I'm completely against assassinating him, and you can't accuse him of treason because he's not a US citizen, but I do think he ought to be tried for espionage.

I don't think you could make the same case. Assange did not steal anything, it was given to his organisation and they have published less than 300 of the cables. The US authorities say that the documents were stolen by someone else, (who is in their custody). These documents were essentially leaked to Wikileaks, by someone that had access to them. Assange was not a party to their theft. Information leaks are quite common, altho usually not to this scale. As for trying Assange for espionage, that is highly unlikely to work, (as a number of legal scholars have been pointing out in the press), and would be stretching the law to the breaking point, something we usually abhor. Plus, someone would have to turn him over and that's unlikely to happen. If he were to be tried then they'd also have to try the mainstream press, as well, since they've had possession of these documents and have published them. That's just not going to happen. The Pentagon Papers set the precedent here, and no matter how much the government squirms and writhes in an attempt to make their case, they really just don't have much of a leg to stand on. Perhaps they could make a case for receipt of stolen property, but that wouldn't suit them. This is never going to go to court, it would be embarrassing for any DoJ lawyer to do so, given precedent in previous cases of leaked information.

 

[Wink and the Gun]

Yeah, I agree that it would be extremely difficult to try the case, even in the unlikely event that another country would turn him over. If I was the prosecutor, however, I would try to make the argument that Assange coerced the individual(s) to commit the thefts. Since it's unlikely that the documents were all turned over to him in a single batch, out of the blue, I would argue that even if the initial documents were freely given with no persuasion, that after that Assange persuaded him to get more and more, until we got to the huge amount that we have today. Obviously, this would depend on a lot of evidence that we may not even be able to get (if it exists at all) for email transactions, correspondence, etc.