Super Bowl Sniper - Indianapolis

[the1kidd03]

To whom are you referring to when you say "why we're armed and why we train"?


If you mean yourself, what are you training for? Stripping liberties from citizens? Protecting yours from being stripped?

Just curious... I am not sure I follow your comment.

anyone and everyone.....you carry a gun for self-defense...and train with it so you know you're capable of using it in a situation....the same goes for law enforcement with all their gear and military as well

but in a large venue such as this, allowing everyone to carry with that many police/security present is counter productive to their mission....and if they weren't there being proactive...it would open opportunity SIGNIFICANTLY for mass attack

 

[J_Wales]

anyone and everyone.....you carry a gun for self-defense...and train with it so you know you're capable of using it in a situation....the same goes for law enforcement with all their gear and military as well

but in a large venue such as this, allowing everyone to carry with that many police/security present is counter productive to their mission....and if they weren't there being proactive...it would open opportunity SIGNIFICANTLY for mass attack

With all due respect, I have zero interest in surrendering my liberties for safety. I tend to follow the philosophy of a statement made by another man who said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I avoid events like the sb for this reason.

The question is "What will I do when the state expands its definition of "areas of opportunity for mass attack" to the point that it includes virtually everwhere I go on a day to day basis?"

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

the body scanners work WHEN in place....what's to say an employee isn't motivated to place weapons/explosives in hidden locations INSIDE the facility PRIOR to the sporting events when there are no scanners............as I pointed out in my previous post, a dozen armed citizens pointing weapons in different directions aren't going to help a sniper in identifying who the real threat is....not to mention they provide EYES more than anything....they get intel of a potential threat and start scanning for them and suspicious activity...if they see something, they report it back for ground guys to intercept.....so how would a civilian be able to handle this situation...they couldn't ...they can only be REACTIVE...not PROACTIVE in security measures

You make a good point, but...isn't a LEO sniper, by definition reactive and not proactive?

 

[esrice]

You make a good point, but...isn't a LEO sniper, by definition reactive and not proactive?

Both.

Reactive to events as they unfold, but proactive in regards to observation and intel communication.

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

really?

so you can identify a man with a vest bomb wearing a heavy coat over it? Don't you think intel being fed to the snipers and looking for that specific person or his coat would be more effective than a bunch of random citizens going about their activities completely clueless as to the potential threat

people are imagining that they can identify and see all plausible threats....and it's simply not the case....citizens would fare well against an attacker with a gun...but a lone gunman is not the likely scenario for a large venue such as the superbowl

How does this wearing-a-vest-bomb-under-a-heavy-coat guy get through the all-seeing naked body scanners? If these don't work, that would require a whole new thread!

 

[Clay]

really?

so you can identify a man with a vest bomb wearing a heavy coat over it? Don't you think intel being fed to the snipers and looking for that specific person or his coat would be more effective than a bunch of random citizens going about their activities completely clueless as to the potential threat

people are imagining that they can identify and see all plausible threats....and it's simply not the case....citizens would fare well against an attacker with a gun...but a lone gunman is not the likely scenario for a large venue such as the superbowl

hey, YOU said "If an attack occurred and you had 3-4 citizens pull their weapons to engage" which means the identity has already been established.

plus, by your logic someone would be able to get inside wearing a vest bomb covered by a large coat. Yeah, thats likely.

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

Both.

Reactive to events as they unfold, but proactive in regards to observation and intel communication.

 

[the1kidd03]

With all due respect, I have zero interest in surrendering my liberties for safety. I tend to follow the philosophy of a statement made by another man who said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I avoid events like the sb for this reason.

Agreed, and I don't blame you. I feel the same way but I also understand the reasons and planning behind security procedures. The majority of citizens do NOT carry and so it is the duty of security groups to provide protection for all of the rest of those people. To do this effectively they must remove any "potential threat" so that the wrong people are not engaged in a reactive state. Hence, asking citizens to leave weapons in their car. Same thing overseas, weapons are confiscated so they no longer present a threat to your team. At least here, they aren't taking them and allowing you take them to your vehicle. In light of all this, it is HARDLY stripping anyone of their liberties. That would have the implication of being permanent whereas this is NOT.

The question is "What will I do when the state expands their definition of "areas of opportunity for mass attack" to the point that it includes virtually everwhere I go on a day to day basis?"

I understand your point of view. Sadly, the government has given themselves with too much power starting with the Patriot Act. Enabling even law abiding, patriotic American citizens to be "deemed" as a "terrorist." Well, actually the problem started with the government being in control of our armed forces, but those are all entirely other discussions. My comment about being armed and training is for the instance where the government does try to ACTUALLY strip those rights, we the people will have a means to combat it.

 

[the1kidd03]

How does this wearing-a-vest-bomb-under-a-heavy-coat guy get through the all-seeing naked body scanners? If these don't work, that would require a whole new thread!

what's to say the attacker wasn't on the grounds days before and hid the materials somewhere...or an employee that had access days prior....or either paid off and employee ..or holding an employees family hostage...granted that's getting a bit extreme and Hollywood like..but still high possibility...it doesn't take a genius to figure out ways around security measures

 

[J_Wales]

Sadly, the government has given themselves with too much power starting with the Patriot Act. Enabling even law abiding, patriotic American citizens to be "deemed" as a "terrorist."

The people have allowed the government to do it. Hopefully, the sheep will wake up, take back control, and put the central government back within the cage outlined in the Constitution.

[/QUOTE] My comment about being armed and training is for the instance where the government does try to ACTUALLY strip those rights, we the people will have a means to combat it.[/QUOTE]


Indeed.

pacem ora, para bellum...

Unfortunately, I expect Hell is coming to breakfast.

pax tecum

 

[the1kidd03]

hey, YOU said "If an attack occurred and you had 3-4 citizens pull their weapons to engage" which means the identity has already been established.

plus, by your logic someone would be able to get inside wearing a vest bomb covered by a large coat. Yeah, thats likely.

agreed, I should have laid out the example with considerable more detail...but I was merely trying to demonstrate a point rather than open the box on any number of "what if's"

it is likely.....someone planning on doing harm to that extent aren't usually very dumb.......they hide their weapons cache's underground and all sorts of odd places overseas....what makes you think such a threat couldn't hide an explosive in the building days prior

 

[Denny347]

There are a few on here that can use this. We had guys with guns in the Stadium, around the Stadium, and all around the mile square. Deal with it.

 

[VUPDblue]

We had guys with guns in the Stadium, around the Stadium, and all around the mile square. Deal with it.

Yeah, but they just had pepperball guns. They may as well have been teenage boys with their high-tech paintball gear...the teenagers would have worked cheaper too.

 

[Goodcat]

What's the problem with the government having guns and eyes on the event? What's the problem with government having guns in the streets? So did you...

 

[greyhound47]

Very cool! Best seat at the game for sure.

Nah. The best seat was at home.

 

[the1kidd03]

Nah. The best seat was at home.

no crowd, save $$$$, better view..... AND you don't miss the commercials...LOL

 

[atvdave]

Is it just me, or do others have a problem with snipers at the Super Bowl? All the participants are forcibly disarmed at the door through the process of the full body (naked body) scanners and THEN they announce that there were snipers at the game? WHY?

I'm sorry, but the police state in this country has gotten out of hand!

I don't mind one bit that they have snipers (police) at the events. There are many ways someone could get by the security systems in place, and I for one would feel much safer knowing that there watching out for it.

I hope when I go to the Super Cross this year there that they will be there as well.

 

[J_Wales]

no crowd, save $$$$, better view..... AND you don't miss the commercials...LOL

And one can be armed instead of having to surrender one's arms, bow down to the state, and tell the state how thankful one is for protecting them.

 

[the1kidd03]

And one can be armed instead of having to surrender one's arms, bow down to the state, and tell them how thankful one is for protecting them.

I thought we'd moved on

 

[J_Wales]

There are a few on here that can use this. We had guys with guns in the Stadium, around the Stadium, and all around the mile square. Deal with it.

Gee, thank you for saving me... and babysitting the world. You're my hero.