GUN BUYBACK!!!

[hoosierdoc]

I can't say either way if he committed an infraction, crime, or ordinance violation. All I know is what I saw.

Did you notice him before he was handcuffed? Was he working the line asking to purchase?

 

[Ted]

Did you notice him before he was handcuffed? Was he working the line asking to purchase?

Standing on the other side of the street, holding a sign advertising to buy guns for $$$.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

My After Action Report:

I arrived a bit before noon and found people lined up in cars, NOT on school grounds but in a vacant lot. Apparently the phone calls I made concerning the absurdity of forcing citizens to place themselves in danger of committing a felony to participate in this circus woke someone up.

I was maybe seventh in line and found the event to be organized about as one would expect. The line moved at a snail's pace. It took me better than half an hour to reach a position where I was actually transacting business with someone.

The first glaring thing I noticed was the almost complete lack of competent gun handling skills on the part of the officials involved. More on that in a moment.

The next obvious thing was that the declaration that guns could be turned in "no questions asked" was a complete falsehood.

A police officer approached me and ASKED ME FOR IDENTIFICATION!!! I provided it. He then asked for my guns. I provided them. He took both, including my driver's license to a table.

RE: gun handling...an officer opened the trunk of the car in front of me and removed a non-descript long gun of some sort. The glimpse I got of it leads me to believe it was a rimfire of some sort. Its action was wrapped in an old sheet or rag and its condition was unknown. The officer did NOTHING to check/clear the weapon. It could have had a round in the chamber and a cocked hammer for all anyone knew. He simply took it, walked across the lot and dumped it on a table in front of two brother cops. This pretty much seemed to set the standard that I observed during my presence there. I saw BOXES of guns removed from vehicles and treated by officers in this way, with muzzles pointing in every direction.

I was able then to pull up and see the table where the firearms were being processed. Fortunately, there was one stout gentleman, wearing a ball cap marked "Crime Lab" who seemed to be the only one present who was clearly competent to handle firearms. He and another officer were making a minute examination of markings and serial numbers and even had a book titled "Gunmarks" to assist them...a suspicious activity related to firearms slated to be destroyed "no questions asked."

I submitted a shoebox of eight ancient breaktop revolvers. It took a good fifteen minutes for the two officers to examine them to their satisfaction.

When they were through I was brought my driver's license and a document which listed my name, MY ADDRESS, and a detailed inventory of the guns. I was instructed to pull forward to an RV parked on the lot. There a man took my document and handed it to a man in the RV. I was then handed $400 in $50 dollar bills.

THE MAN IN THE RV RETAINED THE DOCUMENT WITH MY NAME AND ADDRESS. Where it will go and what purpose it will serve is anyone's guess. It can be argued that it serves as an accounting for the monies disbursed. This could be accomplished WITHOUT personal information appearing on the document.

I then left the area.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I thought that you had to buy and sell for a profit for it to be considered "dealing."

"Dealing" is whatever ATF says it is.

 

[pudly]

Drove by at around 12:50pm. There indeed was a long line of cars- about 40-50 which didn't appear to be moving. They were away from the school which was my primary concern so I just looked around and drove off to run some errands.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Standing on the other side of the street, holding a sign advertising to buy guns for $$$.

Wow. To the best of your knowledge was he simply there and was approached by officers?

 

[Ted]

Wow. To the best of your knowledge was he simply there and was approached by officers?

Approached? Yeah, that is one word for it.

He was conducting business on 39th St., not obstructing any traffic. He didn't appear to be breaking any laws either.

A fat black guy, wearing jeans; tee shirt; and a ball cap with the word "Police"; made his way across the street, yelling "Hey" repeatedly at him.....right after another man in a suit, presumably a detective, approached him and then left him alone after he moved out of the way of traffic.

Then a marked unit and some uniformed officers arrived, disarmed, and cuffed him. He was there just shy of an hour in that condition, before being released.

 

[churchmouse]

I tried to warn folks not to Pi$$ with the Po-Po but no, gotta go and get hand cuffed. Notg a good idea guys. It was a LEO show and not to be screwed with. You wonder what folks are thinking. Hope it is not serious.

Edit...so Jdmack 79 just had to get a deal on a questionable at best firearm from an unknown individual in plain view of the LEO.....Brilliant move.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I tried to warn folks not to Pi$$ with the Po-Po but no, gotta go and get hand cuffed. Notg a good idea guys. It was a LEO show and not to be screwed with. You wonder what folks are thinking. Hope it is not serious.

I'll reserve judgement on whether it was a good idea after I hear the amount of the settlement that this guy is going to get from the City of Indianapolis.

Anytime the PO-LICE grab a guy, handcuff him , hold him for an hour and then let him go, it means they had no right to stop him to begin with.

There are penalties under the law for that.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I tried to warn folks not to Pi$$ with the Po-Po but no, gotta go and get hand cuffed. Notg a good idea guys. It was a LEO show and not to be screwed with. You wonder what folks are thinking. Hope it is not serious.

Edit...so Jdmack 79 just had to get a deal on a questionable at best firearm from an unknown individual in plain view of the LEO.....Brilliant move.

Yeah, I'm not really going to judge that either. If all he was doing is standing there on a public street attempting to purchase a legal product I think it is ridiculous to use a "show of force" to stop someone from legally engaging in commerce.

 

[churchmouse]

I'll reserve judgement on whether it was a good idea after I hear the amount of the settlement that this guy is going to get from the City of Indianapolis.

Anytime the PO-LICE grab a guy, handcuff him , hold him for an hour and then let him go, it means they had no right to stop him to begin with.

There are penalties under the law for that.

True but why put yourself out there in an already questionable situation. I will not hold my breath on settlements as that is questionable in its self. Leo does as LEO will. If they saw fit in this highly charged situation to detain, they will detain...period. Best to have let this go unless as you were doing, selling off useless iron not trying to interfere with the locals big show. That is merely my own humble opinion. I was not handcuffed at the curb.

 

[Ted]

I'll reserve judgement on whether it was a good idea after I hear the amount of the settlement that this guy is going to get from the City of Indianapolis.

Anytime the PO-LICE grab a guy, handcuff him , hold him for an hour and then let him go, it means they had no right to stop him to begin with.

There are penalties under the law for that.

You're mistaken on at least on one point: Police don't have rights. They have authority.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah, I'm not really going to judge that either. If all he was doing is standing there on a public street attempting to purchase a legal product I think it is ridiculous to use a "show of force" to stop someone from legally engaging in commerce.

I agree but it was "Their" show. Not to be interfered with. They will put you in cuffs just to make a point. Just not smart no matter what the law says. It is after all, what the law does. No slam, just fact.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Unless he needs a permit in order to advertise (using a sign) or something?

 

[Liberty Sanders]

True but why put yourself out there in an already questionable situation. I will not hold my breath on settlements as that is questionable in its self. Leo does as LEO will. If they saw fit in this highly charged situation to detain, they will detain...period. Best to have let this go unless as you were doing, selling off useless iron not trying to interfere with the locals big show. That is merely my own humble opinion. I was not handcuffed at the curb.

The police may not detain because they "see fit" to do so. They can detain under guidelines established by the Supreme Court of the United States.

Police who detain citizens outside the parameters of those guidelines can be and ARE successfully sued in court.

Several eyewitnesses observed the citizen's behavior and saw nothing illegal...at least by the citizen.

The situation is ripe for litigation.

 

[Ted]

The police may not detain because they "see fit" to do so. They can detain under guidelines established by the Supreme Court of the United States.

Police who detain citizens outside the parameters of those guidelines can be and ARE successfully sued in court.

Several eyewitnesses observed the citizen's behavior and saw nothing illegal...at least by the citizen.

The situation is ripe for litigation.

Police only need "reasonable suspicion" to detain, per SCOTUS.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I agree but it was "Their" show. Not to be interfered with. They will put you in cuffs just to make a point. Just not smart no matter what the law says. It is after all, what the law does. No slam, just fact.

Point being we can detain, disarm, search, and humiliate you for any legal activity you wish to engage in? Surely not.

And why was this a highly charged event? Sounded like a boring line of slow moving cars to me

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Police only need "reasonable suspicion" to detain, per SCOTUS.

As a retired LEO I am well aware of the necessary standard.

To say that the police require "only" reasonable suspicion intimates that the standard is trivial.

It is not.

The difference between "reasonable suspicion" and "absolutely no suspicion whatsoever" is akin to the difference between "lightning" and "lightning bug." It also makes the difference between zero dollars and MANY dollars for the offending agency that fails to train its rogue officers in the difference.

 

[trapperDave]

so whats their "reasonable suspicion"?

to many sheep lay down and dont/wont stand up for their rights....thats why the popo get away with this kind of BS.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Police only need "reasonable suspicion" to detain, per SCOTUS.

And what crime were they reasonably assuming this guy was committing?