GUN BUYBACK!!!

[Miketodd]

He was not moved anywhere.

I was under the impression he was moved from the street corner he was on over to where the police were set up. My apologies.

 

[Ted]

I was under the impression he was moved from the street corner he was on over to where the police were set up. My apologies.

Just to let you know, that a person is lawful police custody can be moved, pending the final outcome of investigation.

If it were raining outside, moving him into the police cruiser would be reasonable. If he was in the street, moving him out of the street would be reasonable. Etc.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

And you know this, how?

Let's not be reduced to silliness here. The difference is clear.

 

[Ted]

Let's not be reduced to silliness here. The difference is clear.

Well, as I was there....and you weren't.....I'd like to know.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Well, as I was there....and you weren't.....I'd like to know.

I think it's self evident that an individual who is legally in police custody is not a victim of kidnapping. A person held in custody by police when they lack legal authority to do so clearly IS such a victim.

 

[woowoo2]

Let's not be reduced to silliness here.

That is what happens to most threads around here, it's like the circle of life.
I would not resist it.

 

[Ted]

I think it's self evident that an individual who is legally in police custody is not a victim of kidnapping. A person held in custody by police when they lack legal authority to do so clearly IS such a victim.

So you have first hand knowledge that the police did not lawful authority to detain this person?

There you go again with kidnapping. Please cite the element to the code that the police violated to make such the crime.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

So you have first hand knowledge that the police did not lawful authority to detain this person?

I do not..we will apparently hear from the gentleman shortly.

My remarks will hold if it proves that the police did not meet the standards for a Terry Stop.

 

[jdmack79]

Like many others I think that it is a shame to see perfectly good firearms “destroyed” by the police department. It was my goal to liberate a few firearms from certain death and destruction at the hands of a police furnace or crusher. I decided that I should make a trip to Indianapolis and buy some guns for my personal collection.
Before I left this morning I printed out IC 35-47-2.5 Sale of Handguns. Indiana Code 35-47-2.5 I figured that some individuals who were there to sell their firearms to the police might not be aware of the legality of private sales. I also made the following poster:

At approximately 12:15 I arrived at the Long John Silvers across the street from the gun buyback. I parked my car in the parking lot of the restaurant and walked across the street. I walked down the sidewalk on the opposite side of the street from the buyback with my poster. A man, who I assume was a preacher or was affiliated with the church sponsoring this event, walked up and told me that it is illegal to buy guns from individuals. I chose not to argue with him and simply said “O.K.” and walked the other way down the sidewalk. After approximately five minutes walking along the sidewalk with my sign I found a potential seller. She was in an older gold Buick and was stopped in traffic waiting her turn to sell her gun to the police. She yelled “how much?” and I yelled back “sixty.” She switched lanes and pulled up and parked on a side street a hundred or so yards away from where I was standing. I asked what firearms she wanted to sell and she said two revolvers. She proceeded to show me two S&W snub-nosed revolvers that, from the short time I saw them, appeared to be in excellent condition. She told me that one was a .38 and the other was a .357. Just I was pulling the cash out of my pocket the police showed up.

The first officer to confront me was a heavyset black male in a police t-shirt. He told me to wait there while other officers came. While I was waiting he literally yelled at me for trying to buy a gun off of the woman. The seller left at this time. He lectured me about how many homicides he saw and that getting these guns off of the street would help. I told him that I understand why he may be upset, but that private sales are perfectly legal in Indiana. The officer told me that “unless I had a permit to buy those” I would be going to jail.

Two more officers arrived and the first officer left. One of the first things that the new officers told me was that I was being detained. He then proceeded to ask if I was armed. I informed him that I was armed and that I have a LTCH. I was told to keep my hands up while the officer searched me for weapons. As he was fumbling to remove my firearm from the IWB holster I told him that it would be safer if he left it alone. This absolutely infuriated him. He was proud to inform me that he was an eleven year veteran of the SWAT them and was an expert in handling firearms. He repeatedly asked me if I thought that I knew more about guns than he did. I didn’t answer in fear of making him even angrier. I was then handcuffed while he asked me if I had any more weapons and he searched my pockets. I did not answer whether or not I had any more weapons (he would have continued searching anyway), but did tell him to be careful with my phone as he was putting all of my possessions in the dirt. I’ve attached a picture below.

Do you see any more weapons? I guess the IMPD doesn’t consider an exposed knife a weapon. During my pat down he missed the knife. I was ordered to sit in the dirt. Officer SWAT repeatedly asked me where my car was parked. I assume he wanted to search it. I did not answer.

Officer SWAT asked me if I had ever had any run-ins with the law. I informed him that I have never had so much as a traffic ticket. He told me “I’ll check on that” and took my LTCH and Drivers license to his car. Before he walked away Officer SWAT told me that he would be calling the ATF and “our gun people” to come speak with me. I told him that private sales were legal and that it regularly happens a few blocks away at the fairgrounds during gun shows. He then told me he didn’t like my attitude. I was left in the supervision of another officer. Unlike the SWAT officer, this officer was nice and more reasonable. While SWAT was running my information we had a nice conversation about target shooting, the legality of a gun buyback on school property, and the neighborhood. He asked me where I went to school and if I had a job. I informed him that I go to Indiana State University and that I have worked at a law firm since 2007. He then went and talked to the SWAT officer who was still in the car.

The SWAT officer returned and told me that I didn’t belong in the neighborhood and that there were, and I quote, “people with AK-47’s around the corner that will shoot and rob you.” He then told me that I could be arrested for carrying a sign on a public sidewalk. He informed me that instead of charging me with a Class B misdemeanor I would get a warning. He wrote a warning ticked for violating 431-702 “Prohibited Activity Around Roadways.”

It shall be unlawful for a pedestrian to sit, stand or move within or upon a roadway, or a median between two (2) roadways, or within the public right-of-way not exceeding fifty (50) feet from the traveled portion of any intersection controlled by an automatic traffic signal or stop sign, for the purpose of or while engaged in (by oral or written methods):
(1)
Soliciting, or peddling, selling, advertising, donating, or distributing any product, property, or service, including but not limited to tickets, handbills, newspapers, or other printed material, to or from an occupant of a vehicle in the roadway; or,
(2)
Conversation or discourse with an occupant of a vehicle in the roadway.

I’m not sure if this is even applicable. I was over 50 feet from the intersection on both the main road and the side street.

He stood me up and told me that if I return to the area I will be arrested. My hands were removed from the handcuffs and I was told to keep them on my head. He started to put my things back in my pockets. He looked at my firearm and began to ridicule me for carrying a dirty gun. It had been a month or so since I had cleaned it, so there was a little bit of lint on it. A fresh picture is below.

I chose not to argue with this SWAT operator, while thinking to myself that I still wouldn’t want a dirty gun pointed at me. He then looked at one of the two magazines I was carrying and the ridicule began again. He asked me why I would only carry a magazine with four rounds in it. I chose not to respond to the officer because if I did he wouldn’t have liked it. I’ve attached a picture of the magazine below.

Do you see four rounds? More you say? Well I guess unlike a certain IMPD officer you can count. The officer proceeded to put my magazines in one pocket and my possessions in another. As he was getting ready to shove my gun with the slide locked back into my kydex holster I told him that it probably wouldn’t fit properly and he could put it in my pocket. I got lectured again about his vast knowledge of firearms and his many years on SWAT. He managed to shove my gun in the holster even though it didn’t fit properly and was sliding around. He told me to walk to my car, not to touch my gun, and leave the neighborhood immediately.

I left Indianapolis with two things today: bruises on my wrists from the handcuffs and reinforced stereotype towards the police.

 

[Rookie]

Did you have a recording device?

 

[Ted]

With the exception of the conversation that I could not hear, this poster's (JDMack79) story is dead-on to everything that was within my line of sight.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Are you entitled to recourse for the police disrupting your private sale? I wouldn't do what you did but I support your right to do so.

Curious: did you speak with any lawyers in your firm prior to this?

 

[jdmack79]

Did you have a recording device?

I have Ustream installed on my iPhone. I have it set to begin recording at the touch of one button and save to both the internet and its memory. I was ordered to put my hands up before I could activate it. My phone was also taken anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered much.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Like many others I think that it is a shame to see perfectly good firearms “destroyed” by the police department. It was my goal to liberate a few firearms from certain death and destruction at the hands of a police furnace or crusher. I decided that I should make a trip to Indianapolis and buy some guns for my personal collection.
Before I left this morning I printed out IC 35-47-2.5 Sale of Handguns. Indiana Code 35-47-2.5 I figured that some individuals who were there to sell their firearms to the police might not be aware of the legality of private sales. I also made the following poster:

At approximately 12:15 I arrived at the Long John Silvers across the street from the gun buyback. I parked my car in the parking lot of the restaurant and walked across the street. I walked down the sidewalk on the opposite side of the street from the buyback with my poster. A man, who I assume was a preacher or was affiliated with the church sponsoring this event, walked up and told me that it is illegal to buy guns from individuals. I chose not to argue with him and simply said “O.K.” and walked the other way down the sidewalk. After approximately five minutes walking along the sidewalk with my sign I found a potential seller. She was in an older gold Buick and was stopped in traffic waiting her turn to sell her gun to the police. She yelled “how much?” and I yelled back “sixty.” She switched lanes and pulled up and parked on a side street a hundred or so yards away from where I was standing. I asked what firearms she wanted to sell and she said two revolvers. She proceeded to show me two S&W snub-nosed revolvers that, from the short time I saw them, appeared to be in excellent condition. She told me that one was a .38 and the other was a .357. Just I was pulling the cash out of my pocket the police showed up.

The first officer to confront me was a heavyset black male in a police t-shirt. He told me to wait there while other officers came. While I was waiting he literally yelled at me for trying to buy a gun off of the woman. The seller left at this time. He lectured me about how many homicides he saw and that getting these guns off of the street would help. I told him that I understand why he may be upset, but that private sales are perfectly legal in Indiana. The officer told me that “unless I had a permit to buy those” I would be going to jail.

Two more officers arrived and the first officer left. One of the first things that the new officers told me was that I was being detained. He then proceeded to ask if I was armed. I informed him that I was armed and that I have a LTCH. I was told to keep my hands up while the officer searched me for weapons. As he was fumbling to remove my firearm from the IWB holster I told him that it would be safer if he left it alone. This absolutely infuriated him. He was proud to inform me that he was an eleven year veteran of the SWAT them and was an expert in handling firearms. He repeatedly asked me if I thought that I knew more about guns than he did. I didn’t answer in fear of making him even angrier. I was then handcuffed while he asked me if I had any more weapons and he searched my pockets. I did not answer whether or not I had any more weapons (he would have continued searching anyway), but did tell him to be careful with my phone as he was putting all of my possessions in the dirt. I’ve attached a picture below.

Do you see any more weapons? I guess the IMPD doesn’t consider an exposed knife a weapon. During my pat down he missed the knife. I was ordered to sit in the dirt. Officer SWAT repeatedly asked me where my car was parked. I assume he wanted to search it. I did not answer.

Officer SWAT asked me if I had ever had any run-ins with the law. I informed him that I have never had so much as a traffic ticket. He told me “I’ll check on that” and took my LTCH and Drivers license to his car. Before he walked away Officer SWAT told me that he would be calling the ATF and “our gun people” to come speak with me. I told him that private sales were legal and that it regularly happens a few blocks away at the fairgrounds during gun shows. He then told me he didn’t like my attitude. I was left in the supervision of another officer. Unlike the SWAT officer, this officer was nice and more reasonable. While SWAT was running my information we had a nice conversation about target shooting, the legality of a gun buyback on school property, and the neighborhood. He asked me where I went to school and if I had a job. I informed him that I go to Indiana State University and that I have worked at a law firm since 2007. He then went and talked to the SWAT officer who was still in the car.

The SWAT officer returned and told me that I didn’t belong in the neighborhood and that there were, and I quote, “people with AK-47’s around the corner that will shoot and rob you.” He then told me that I could be arrested for carrying a sign on a public sidewalk. He informed me that instead of charging me with a Class B misdemeanor I would get a warning. He wrote a warning ticked for violating 431-702 “Prohibited Activity Around Roadways.”

It shall be unlawful for a pedestrian to sit, stand or move within or upon a roadway, or a median between two (2) roadways, or within the public right-of-way not exceeding fifty (50) feet from the traveled portion of any intersection controlled by an automatic traffic signal or stop sign, for the purpose of or while engaged in (by oral or written methods):
(1)
Soliciting, or peddling, selling, advertising, donating, or distributing any product, property, or service, including but not limited to tickets, handbills, newspapers, or other printed material, to or from an occupant of a vehicle in the roadway; or,
(2)
Conversation or discourse with an occupant of a vehicle in the roadway.

I’m not sure if this is even applicable. I was over 50 feet from the intersection on both the main road and the side street.

He stood me up and told me that if I return to the area I will be arrested. My hands were removed from the handcuffs and I was told to keep them on my head. He started to put my things back in my pockets. He looked at my firearm and began to ridicule me for carrying a dirty gun. It had been a month or so since I had cleaned it, so there was a little bit of lint on it. A fresh picture is below.

I chose not to argue with this SWAT operator, while thinking to myself that I still wouldn’t want a dirty gun pointed at me. He then looked at one of the two magazines I was carrying and the ridicule began again. He asked me why I would only carry a magazine with four rounds in it. I chose not to respond to the officer because if I did he wouldn’t have liked it. I’ve attached a picture of the magazine below.

Do you see four rounds? More you say? Well I guess unlike a certain IMPD officer you can count. The officer proceeded to put my magazines in one pocket and my possessions in another. As he was getting ready to shove my gun with the slide locked back into my kydex holster I told him that it probably wouldn’t fit properly and he could put it in my pocket. I got lectured again about his vast knowledge of firearms and his many years on SWAT. He managed to shove my gun in the holster even though it didn’t fit properly and was sliding around. He told me to walk to my car, not to touch my gun, and leave the neighborhood immediately.

I left Indianapolis with two things today: bruises on my wrists from the handcuffs and reinforced stereotype towards the police.

I willingly modify my previous remarks...this gentleman was kidnapped AND he was robbed.

Also, the threat by police to arrest him if he returned to the area, in all likelihood, constitutes a conspiracy to violate civil rights.

These cops should be behind bars.

 

[Ted]

I willingly modify my previous remarks...this gentleman was kidnapped AND he was robbed.

Also, the threat by police to arrest him if he returned to the area, in all likelihood, constitutes a conspiracy to violate civil rights.

These cops should be behind bars.

Conspiracy to violate civil rights I will agree......conditioned upon what the police knew at the time of the stop.

Kidnapping and Robbery.......yeah, right.

 

[Rookie]

Were items taken from him without his consent?

 

[jdmack79]

Are you entitled to recourse for the police disrupting your private sale? I wouldn't do what you did but I support your right to do so.

Curious: did you speak with any lawyers in your firm prior to this?

They mentioned that there might me some minor city ordinance that I could potentially violate. He said that if the law wasn't being uniformly enforced that there would be standing for some type of action. They didn't really look into this for me, it was more of a conversation at lunch.

 

[phylodog]

I'd love to have the name of the former SWAT officer

 

[Rookie]

I'd love to have the name of the former SWAT officer

What's your position (I am putting you on the spot, so feel free to ignore me)

 

[VUPDblue]

What's your position

HMFIC