Why the 16 senators did us a favor

[Tombs]

What if...

What if no AWB or any other gun control amendment is offered to the UBC bill?

What if PRO Gun ammendment(s) is/are amended?

How many republicans do you think would jump the fence if, say, reciprocity were added?

Lots of ways to skin this cat. It ain't over.

The more useless pro-gun amendments they tag on, the greater the chance for them to completely dissolve the second amendment and the fourth amendment.

Say for example, they lift the ban on machine guns but enact a 10 round magazine limit. Lots of people will become complacent. I already see them trying this by removing the necessity of NICS for LTCH holders.

No, you want them to make it as bad as it can possibly be so it doesn't have a chance of passing.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

What if...

What if no AWB or any other gun control amendment is offered to the UBC bill?

What if PRO Gun ammendment(s) is/are amended?

How many republicans do you think would jump the fence if, say, reciprocity were added?

Lots of ways to skin this cat. It ain't over.

Good point Jeremiah.

What would we be willing to trade for some form of "enhanced" UBC? The sausage is only begun to be made.

 

[Destro]

Good point Jeremiah.

What would we be willing to trade for some form of "enhanced" UBC? The sausage is only begun to be made.

if they wanna rewrite the NFA, GCA, and FOPA act in our favor, i'll hear ideas on a UBC system that does not store data or require a FFL

 

[MilitaryArms]

Now we can have a vote on a bill (DOA in the house) in the senate and see these senators put their money where their mouth is. This bill is a nightmare for Harry Reed and the democrats and that is why they voted for it.

It will FORCE democrats in red states to take a position on record.

The last thing Reed wants to do is bring a go nowhere bill to the floor and make risky seats go on record.

Democrats being "on the record" is meaningless. What do you think their being "on the record" will do? Do you think their constituents don't know where they stand? Do you think the voters will suddenly wake up and think, "Oh Senator X really is anti-gun, I'm shocked! I'm voting them out!"? Probably not.

It means absolutely nothing if they vote for the bill and is fails. It will be forgotten the next day.

If it passes, then those 16 Republicans will be directly to blame... and we can vote them out after we have the bill signed into law along with a handful of Democrats.

Those 16 Republicans did gun owners across America an injustice. This bill should have never been debated or voted on, it's treasonous.

 

[slidemuzik]

These are the Republicans who failed to support a filibuster today along with their NRA rating.

Lamar Alexander (Tenn.) – NRA A rated
Kelly Ayotte (N.H.) – NRA A rated
Richard Burr (N.C.) – NRA A rated
Saxby Chambliss (Ga.) – NRA A rated
Tom Coburn (Okla.) – NRA A rated
Susan Collins (Maine) – NRA B+ rated
Bob Corker (Tenn.) – NRA A rated
Jeff Flake (Ariz.) – NRA A rated
Lindsey Graham (S.C.) – NRA A rated
Dean Heller (Nev.) – NRA A rated
John Hoeven (N.D.) – NRA A rated
Johnny Isakson (Ga.) – NRA A rated
Mark Kirk (Ill.) – NRA D rated
John McCain (Ariz.) – NRA B+ rated
Pat Toomey (Pa.) – NRA A rated
Roger Wicker (Miss.) – NRA A+ rate

The NRA has some 'splainin to do. This is a huge black eye for the NRA. They owe membership a statement on future support for these senators. Where NRA (members) dollars have gone to elect these guys, NRA leadership is accountable for those contributions and their plans for the future.

 

[HavokCycle]

All they have ever expected was to get UBC in some way...eventual registration.Do not believe anything they say.

this. they went wayyyyyy left on their intent, so they would have room for 'compromise'

this will be the 'deal' UBC will be required.

no one has stopped to consider that lanza's mother legally purchased her guns from an FFL. lawful guns to a lawful person, that wound up in the hands of an unstable person that MURDERED her to get them.

 

[MilitaryArms]

These are the Republicans who failed to support a filibuster today along with their NRA rating.

Lamar Alexander (Tenn.) – NRA A rated
Kelly Ayotte (N.H.) – NRA A rated
Richard Burr (N.C.) – NRA A rated
Saxby Chambliss (Ga.) – NRA A rated
Tom Coburn (Okla.) – NRA A rated
Susan Collins (Maine) – NRA B+ rated
Bob Corker (Tenn.) – NRA A rated
Jeff Flake (Ariz.) – NRA A rated
Lindsey Graham (S.C.) – NRA A rated
Dean Heller (Nev.) – NRA A rated
John Hoeven (N.D.) – NRA A rated
Johnny Isakson (Ga.) – NRA A rated
Mark Kirk (Ill.) – NRA D rated
John McCain (Ariz.) – NRA B+ rated
Pat Toomey (Pa.) – NRA A rated
Roger Wicker (Miss.) – NRA A+ rate

The NRA has some 'splainin to do. This is a huge black eye for the NRA. They owe membership a statement on future support for these senators. Where NRA (members) dollars have gone to elect these guys, NRA leadership is accountable for those contributions and their plans for the future.

The NRA has had one black eye after the other. I am not comfortable with them being in charge of our 2nd Amendment freedoms. If it were up to them, we would have lost most of our semi-autos decades ago. I only put up with them because I have few other choices. The GOA won't make an effort to grow their numbers and the other pro-2nd organizations have little or no lobbying power.

 

[Destro]

Democrats being "on the record" is meaningless. What do you think their being "on the record" will do? Do you think their constituents don't know where they stand? Do you think the voters will suddenly wake up and think, "Oh Senator X really is anti-gun, I'm shocked! I'm voting them out!"? Probably not.

It means absolutely nothing if they vote for the bill and is fails. It will be forgotten the next day.

If it passes, then those 16 Republicans will be directly to blame... and we can vote them out after we have the bill signed into law along with a handful of Democrats.

Those 16 Republicans did gun owners across America an injustice. This bill should have never been debated or voted on, it's treasonous.

Well as much debate there was here about where Dan Coats stood, I would imagine there are many having that conversation. The 16 republicans voted to close debate. Nothing more. It's not gloom and doom. The bill itself can still be filibustered. How do we know the ones who were FOR the filibuster were not supportive of the 16? We end debate, vote, it fails, its over. I will not get worked up over a procedural cloture vote.

 

[CarmelHP]

Democrats can not win the House on anti-gun politics. They've been to that rodeo before and have had their ass handed to them each time. Each time they've rammed through a bill they've paid dearly.

 

[yepthatsme]

I'm not trying to enforce the doom and gloom, but they have already achieved a huge win by fragmenting the GOP. If the dems can get any of their gun control agenda passed, that's a win. If they can't, the GOP will be to blame and that will be a win to be used against the GOP in 2014. They also know that the GOP that voted for the debate of this bill will now be a target of the conservatives. This will at the very least, may cause them to be removed and replaced with another republican. However, I think they are counting on conservatives to become fed up with the GOP causing further fragmentation which will open the door for a dem to take the office.

They know that the GOP is in bad shape due to conservatives splitting away to more conservative parties and todays action will just contribute to that trend. The best thing the republicans could do, would be to stick together, but they have now proven that some are just as liberal as the dems. This was a very sad day and a hard blow to conservatives.

You can put on your rose colored glasses if you want, but I see this as we are on our own now. We can no longer trust the GOP to fight for our rights. Boehner has already indicated that it will not need to have a GOP majority to come to a vote in the house. I feel a knife in the back.

 

[JTScribe]

I'm sure we can trust the Boehner-led house to take care of us.

 

[HoughMade]

"Just one more vote against freedom and the people will wake up and vote them out."

Give it up people, it's not going to happen. We need to fight the legislation because if it passes we are stuck with it and the people WILL NOT wake up. There is NO up side to any new gun control law passing. Not one.

 

[TopDog]

These are the Republicans who failed to support a filibuster today along with their NRA rating.

Lamar Alexander (Tenn.) – NRA A rated
Kelly Ayotte (N.H.) – NRA A rated
Richard Burr (N.C.) – NRA A rated
Saxby Chambliss (Ga.) – NRA A rated
Tom Coburn (Okla.) – NRA A rated
Susan Collins (Maine) – NRA B+ rated
Bob Corker (Tenn.) – NRA A rated
Jeff Flake (Ariz.) – NRA A rated
Lindsey Graham (S.C.) – NRA A rated
Dean Heller (Nev.) – NRA A rated
John Hoeven (N.D.) – NRA A rated
Johnny Isakson (Ga.) – NRA A rated
Mark Kirk (Ill.) – NRA D rated
John McCain (Ariz.) – NRA B+ rated
Pat Toomey (Pa.) – NRA A rated
Roger Wicker (Miss.) – NRA A+ rate

The NRA has some 'splainin to do. This is a huge black eye for the NRA. They owe membership a statement on future support for these senators. Where NRA (members) dollars have gone to elect these guys, NRA leadership is accountable for those contributions and their plans for the future.

The NRA rating is not a guarantee as to how a political figure will act. It is their opinion and nothing more. If you want guarantee's then you need to have something in writing, like the Constitution. Oops, even having something in writing will not guarantee anything.

The NRA has had one black eye after the other. I am not comfortable with them being in charge of our 2nd Amendment freedoms. If it were up to them, we would have lost most of our semi-autos decades ago. I only put up with them because I have few other choices. The GOA won't make an effort to grow their numbers and the other pro-2nd organizations have little or no lobbying power.

I hear you. But I belong to both. Both are our best shots at getting anything done. I am not willing to jump ship, unless you want to start a gun lobbing organization. I would be happy to join that to see what we can get done.

 

[yepthatsme]

"Just one more vote against freedom and the people will wake up and vote them out."

Give it up people, it's not going to happen. We need to fight the legislation because if it passes we are stuck with it and the people WILL NOT wake up. There is NO up side to any new gun control law passing. Not one.

Agreed. We have to keep applying the pressure to our representatives and it would also help to have large turnouts for pro 2nd rallies.

 

[JoshuaW]

What if...

What if no AWB or any other gun control amendment is offered to the UBC bill?

What if PRO Gun ammendment(s) is/are amended?

How many republicans do you think would jump the fence if, say, reciprocity were added?

Lots of ways to skin this cat. It ain't over.

Then it would be a genuine compromise, which would make it a little easier to swallow for everyone involved.

Thats not going to happen then. We are going to see many, many amendments, some good some not.

 

[HoughMade]

"After a couple of years of Obama, people will see his true colors and he'll never be re-elected."

That worked well.

 

[yepthatsme]

Then it would be a genuine compromise, which would make it a little easier to swallow for everyone involved.

Thats not going to happen then. We are going to see many, many amendments, some good some not.

Any compromise is relinquishing our rights to the government, then our rights become a privilege. We cannot allow a compromise and we must stop this now. This is unconstitutional legislation and must be treated as such. Don't let them throw you a bone to make you feel better about relinquishing your rights. Once they are gone, blood will need to be shed to get them back.

Edit: What scares me is that we may have to lose our rights before most will find the courage to fight to regain our rights. I want to stop this before that happens.

 

[Wild Deuce]

I like these ideas.

I say let those on "our side" pack S649 with so many poison pills that the legislation dies a quick death ... or we get a TON of what we want.

 

[Jerchap2]

My biggest concern is that the worst-ever so-called Republican Speaker of the House Boehner will cave. That man is a RINO and deal-maker of the worst kind. I talked in-person with my Rep. Todd Rokita about him during the last election cycle, and Rokita told me that "our caucus is not conservative. He just reflects the caucus." I told Rokita that is the problem -- he should not reflect the caucus, he should LEAD the caucus. The man is not a leader, he is a career wimp.

 

[ModernGunner]

LOL...

Lots of interesting comments, mostly just rhetorical in nature, though.

MOST of the comments simply state the 'problem(s)'.

We ALL already know the problems.

Ranting about the problems here, among friends and like-minded thinkers, does nothing.

But virtually no one in their thread provided a single solution. What to actually DO about the issue, except complain with "we gotta do... SOMETHING". Do what?

The REAL question is, what are YOU doing about it? What have you done about it this week?

Open carry so "people get used to seeing guns"? What's THAT do? Don't you think every silly sonuvabich in the country already knows that law-abiding citizens carry guns? Isn't that what this whole debate is already about? Of COURSE they already know.

Gonna go to the next Cracker Barrel or BW3 and create a scene, like some of the threads and video clips have discussed? Is THAT helping? Or, does it just make EVERY gun-carrying, law-abiding citizen look like some wild-eyed-Loughner-wannabe gun nut?

How many letters and / or e-mails have YOU sent THIS week to YOUR politicians? Not last week, not next week, THIS week?

How many letters / e-mails have YOU sent to firearms-related companies encouraging them to leave their anti-gun States and move to Indiana? Colt's in CT and Kimber's in NY, etc., etc., etc.

Have you written and TOLD them that you not only encourage them to leave their rabidly anti-gun States but also that you will not buy and encourage others not to buy products from them as long as they're housed in anti-gun States?

What's your plan for the mid-term elections? Vote for some guy 'on principle', even though you KNOW that guy (or gal) doesn't have a chance in hell of winning?

How 'bout in 2014? Gonna vote 'on principle' AGAIN for some guy (or gal) that doesn't have a chance in hell of winning? THAT'S exactly why we're all in this predicament now. Had those folks voted for REAL 'principle', ousting 'King Barack', ya would NOT be having this 'debate' and this thread wouldn't exist. That's the FACT of it, whether that bruises some egos or not.

Wanna win this? Then we gotta strategize better, and work together. Make the winning the issue, not the ego. Vote SMART. Campaign in your area FOR pro-gun folk that have a chance of winning, and AGAINST Obama and his ilk.

And since someone's probably gonna ask - Yep, I've done all that THIS week.

end of