Woman, with child, bumps gate at/near White House, police chase, shoot, kill her

[92ThoStro]

Sean Bell anyone?

Flees from police, struck one with his car, hit a police vehicle, and then was shot at 50 times along with Two occupants after.his bachelor party?

Aside from happening.at.the white house, which isn't special, they aren't all that different.

the officers in the bell case were Disarmed indicted, acquitted, then fired.

what happened was a result of the police acting like anyone who causes trouble near the white house.is a terrorist car bomber. Bumping.the gate was.not good, but that doesn't mean you draw your gun and rush the vehicle and get.in.front of it.
No front end.damage to vehicle, I doubt.it rammed any gate. If anything she took a wrong.turn and was oddly maneuvering.

This is where the military link comes into play. Just because you are protecting an area, doesn't mean that you can act differently towards a situation that happens somewhere else. Would police draw down and.rush my.car If I bumped the gate to a closed gated community?

So do you guys think the police in the bell case were in.the wrong ( the mayor of NYC said so, so did the community, and other public officials ) but this DC incident.was.a.good shoot?

Both incidents involved striking.an officer.who got in the way. And the .vehicle swarmed.by drawn weapons. Not actively trying.to strike the office either.

Both incidents numerous shots fired.

Both incidents car strikes police.vehicles not on purpose.

So again, white.house needs protecting.so we.kill quicker, sort it out later?

I just don't understand the different.reactions.towards bell and towards this case

I'm in school.now with the intention of being in law.enforcement. and I have LE in the family. So good luck trying to say just a cop basher who wants to find fault in everything they do. Like the people above said to the few who don't.think this shooting should be so glorified. It was a TOTAL mess.

Also.the city settled for millions in.the bell.shooting after he fled, hit an officer and struck a vehicle in the process. They even named a street after him .

 

[Kutnupe14]

Sorry dude, the WH raises the stakes, whether you like it or not. That's the residence of the POTUS. One doesn't go bumping into the THAT gate without people drawing down on them, and I'm 100% fine with that.

 

[Sylvain]

Sorry dude, the WH raises the stakes, whether you like it or not. That's the residence of the POTUS. One doesn't go bumping into the THAT gate without people drawing down on them, and I'm 100% fine with that.

I think the drawing is not the problem there.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I think the drawing is not the problem there.

No one would have shot at the woman if she didnt decide to play "spy hunter" throughout the streets of downtown DC. For places sensitive to national security, I have no issue with military type rules of engagement being observed when a person illustrates themselves to be a potential threat, AND fails to comply with LAWFUL commands.

 

[zippy23]

This is nothing more than the media hoping that shots were fired at members of the gov't, trying to advance gun control, once they got it wrong, they stopped reporting and it hasnt gone mainstream. they are literally searching for anything they can that might resemble a shooting to advance their agenda. sick

 

[92ThoStro]

Is that codified, anything happening in the proximity of the White House needs to be destroyed immediately? Someone does something stupid, and is scared to death by a swarm of hornets, and tries to flee. But I think it is incredibly stupid that in the Sean Bell case, the DC incident sans White House, the entire community, even the MAYOR, publicly ridiculed the officers, the officers were brought to a grand jury, indicted, waived a jury trial, were acquitted, then fired. They did not believe it was safe, or even acceptable to start shooting a moving vehicle. Especially when Sean Bell was not trying to go after the police, he hit the officer because the officer, like in the DC incident placed himself between the car, and the getaway. Either stop moving or we will kill you. The Bell shooting was 50 rounds, most of those were from a single officer who fired 2 mags in rapid succession at the vehicle. I wonder how many rounds were fired at this woman. And where is the footage of the so called " gate ramming "? There was no damage to the front of that vehicle. The scuff, as stated, was from a separate incident during the chase.

I bet she took a wrong turn, realized where she was, freaked out, was drawn down on, freaked out more, and tried to get away.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

No one would have shot at the woman if she didnt decide to play "spy hunter" throughout the streets of downtown DC. For places sensitive to national security, I have no issue with military type rules of engagement being observed when a person illustrates themselves to be a potential threat, AND fails to comply with LAWFUL commands.

Legal, or lawful?

 

[kolob10]

The first casualty in this story was probably the truth. I can hardly trust anything coming from the capital these days. Heck, she was probably an angry federal public servant because of the govt. shutdown. Let's blame it on the republicans and call it a day. Or we could blame it on the anger generated over the new Muslim postage stamp or global warming or............! At any rate, if there was a child with her during the shooting, let's pray for him or her. Imagine the trauma they experienced.

 

[churchmouse]

Wife and I were thinking of the child. Adults make the decisions that kids are living under.

Again, they LEO on scene when she was first stopped let the situation continue when they did not completely immobilize her car. Why do they always allow and escape route. Are they worried about getting a scratch on the new cruiser. Use the bumper. Put it on the car and detain it. Epic fail on the way that was handled. It endangered so many more people and caused her death.
Her actions put her in the situation and was 1 of the reasons she died but that whole dog and pony show could have been ended right there. They let her escape.
They are not your personal cars/trucks. Use them.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Wife and I were thinking of the child. Adults make the decisions that kids are lining under.

Again, they LEO on scene when she was first stopped let the situation continue when they did not completely immobilize her car. Why do they always allow and escape route. Are they worried about getting a scratch on the new cruiser. Use the bumper. Put it on the car and detain it. Epic fail on the way that was handled. It endangered so many more people and caused her death.
Her actions put her in the situation and was 1 of the reasons she died but that whole dog and pony show could have been ended right there. They let her escape.
They are not your personal cars/trucks. Use them.

Agreed! I will add concern over the notion that any response is justified after doing something to cross the police. It reminds me of the 'Don't annoy the crazy person' slogan on t-shirts and posters.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Here's a question. A cessna flown by a woman accidentally enters restricted airspace. Two F-15 are scrambled to intercept it. The planes do a flyby an notice that there's 2 kids also in the plane. Radio communication is attempted, but the pilot fails to acknowledge, and the pilot attempts to fllee while approaching an area sensitive to national security. Do the F-15 pilots down the cessna?

 

[JB357Mag]

No one would have shot at the woman if she didnt decide to play "spy hunter" throughout the streets of downtown DC. For places sensitive to national security, I have no issue with military type rules of engagement being observed when a person illustrates themselves to be a potential threat, AND fails to comply with LAWFUL commands.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jimmy

 

[IndyDave1776]

Here's a question. A cessna flown by a woman accidentally enters restricted airspace. Two F-15 are scrambled to intercept it. The planes do a flyby an notice that there's 2 kids also in the plane. Radio communication is attempted, but the pilot fails to acknowledge, and the pilot attempts to fllee while approaching an area sensitive to national security. Do the F-15 pilots down the cessna?

OK, venturing into areas 'sensitive to national security' justifies immediate termination with extreme prejudice? Have you by chance noticed that these sensitive areas seem to keep getting larger and more numerous? Who gets to define them? How about the 100-mile wide 'Constitution-free zones' that take in areas containing the majority of our population? Do you see a potential problem here?

 

[KLB]

I don't see anything that states that she had documented mental health issues (pl). I have only read that her mother claimed that she had Postpartum Depression. I'm curious how long that can last and how severe it is? I'm curious because her daughter was 18 months old. So can this condition last this long and cause someone to act in such a way, or is there more to the story?

Reports are that she was seeing a Dr and was on Meds until recently.

Yes, PPD can last that long. PPD has caused some women to do a lot of stupid/unthinkable things. It can be a very debilitating thing, especially if the woman already suffered from some degree of depression before.

I experienced it with my ex-wife. Thankfully hers did not manifest itself in a way that was in any way harmful towards my kids.

 

[HenryWallace]

OK, venturing into areas 'sensitive to national security' justifies immediate termination with extreme prejudice? Have you by chance noticed that these sensitive areas seem to keep getting larger and more numerous? Who gets to define them? How about the 100-mile wide 'Constitution-free zones' that take in areas containing the majority of our population? Do you see a potential problem here?

Hell of a good point Dave!

Fear is not a reason to kill anyone.

There is no greater good when those who deem themselves greater get to discriminate as to who is good!

But as Dave said... I can't say this in my Constitution free zone.

 

[HenryWallace]

If you look close enough at ANYONE, you will see imperfections.
That's what Hitler did too!
T4 Program (Nazi policy) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
Sound familiar?
Psychiatry goes insane: Every human emotion now classified as a mental disorder in new psychiatric manual DSM-5
What makes us beautiful is the fact that were all different. Some people can't and don't want to deal with that. Depression is no different.
Emotional outputs are part of life, the problem is that we're treating symptoms by medicating these natural occurrences. Never dealing with the root causes.
Working for other people, eating the wrong foods, trying to compare ourselves to everyone else. In this we lose our individuality.

BTW what the hell happened right before she ran into that barricade? That's what I want to know.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

she used her vehicle to run one of them over, there was no "try". Her vehicle was the weapon

After reading through your links I STILL don't see where she ran over anybody . Just because he was too close when she decided to bolt ( and got BUMPED ) doesn't mean she tried to kill him .

It means he used poor judgment and situational awareness and paid for it . He's lucky that lesson ( which I'm betting he still didn't learn ) didn't cost him more .

This whole issue is stupid and sad to me . All the various types of LEO's involved , the " best " training and tools money can buy and the tool that got used was still the gun .

The " facts " still aren't clear to me , did she actually ram a gate or bump one ? Did she actually run over an officer or bump one ?

When my neighbor's mom has a stoke , rolls through my yard and bumps my house with her minivan I don't get to assume she's loaded with a car bomb and start shooting at her .

Out of all the tools in what I'm sure is one hell of a tool box the freakin gun is the one that got used .

This story to me isn't much different than those NYPD idiots a few weeks ago that started firing into the crowded city streets . Or the Colorado cops going through the ladies house because her door was open .

Or the Bissard case , or one of thousands of examples of of LEO's doing what they want with us and getting away with it . It needs to stop , but it won't .

How does this pertain to the military ? The military has ROE , rules of engagement . They don't get to fire (in most cases) without being fired on first . They don't get to go around killing folks based on a bunch of what ifs .

Why do our police departments ?

These guys will be heralded as the DC saviors and probably promoted . Sickening .

 

[IndyDave1776]

After reading through your links I STILL don't see where she ran over anybody . Just because he was too close when she decided to bolt ( and got BUMPED ) doesn't mean she tried to kill him .

It means he used poor judgment and situational awareness and paid for it . He's lucky that lesson ( which I'm betting he still didn't learn ) didn't cost him more .

This whole issue is stupid and sad to me . All the various types of LEO's involved , the " best " training and tools money can buy and the tool that got used was still the gun .

The " facts " still aren't clear to me , did she actually ram a gate or bump one ? Did she actually run over an officer or bump one ?

When my neighbor's mom has a stoke , rolls through my yard and bumps my house with her minivan I don't get to assume she's loaded with a car bomb and start shooting at her .

Out of all the tools in what I'm sure is one hell of a tool box the freakin gun is the one that got used .

This story to me isn't much different than those NYPD idiots a few weeks ago that started firing into the crowded city streets . Or the Colorado cops going through the ladies house because her door was open .

Or the Bissard case , or one of thousands of examples of of LEO's doing what they want with us and getting away with it . It needs to stop , but it won't .

How does this pertain to the military ? The military has ROE , rules of engagement . They don't get to fire (in most cases) without being fired on first . They don't get to go around killing folks based on a bunch of what ifs .

Why do our police departments ?

These guys will be heralded as the DC saviors and probably promoted . Sickening .

Unfortunately I just got scolded for giving out too much rep.

 

[churchmouse]

Again....the proper use of the pursuit vehicles would have stopped this right then and there. If she was not allowed an escape route......she could not have escaped.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Has anyone seen video of the actual shooting? Did the police shoot into the car at close range or at a distance? Although I think the use of force was probably justified in this case based upon what we have seen of it, knowing the circumstances of the actual shoot could change that opinion, if it ever comes out.


In answer to Kutnupe's posited scenario : It depends. It depends upon whether there was a known or suspected threat in addition to the small plane - such as if a WMD was suspected to be involved. It would depend upon the perceived threat level; there's no sense downing an airplane if the damage on the ground is going to be as bad or worse than letting it hit the target. It also depends somewhat on the relative speeds of the aircraft. In the posited case, the F-15 couldn't maintain formation with the Cessna (we're assuming a 152, 172, or 180 for these purposes) so most likely a Capitol Police helicopter would have been "scrambled" intercept and force the aircraft down, if necessary. All measures short of destroying the aircraft would have been taken before the order was given to shoot down the plane. BUT: had there been indications of a significant threat from the Cessna, and if other measures weren't sufficient or available to divert the aircraft from the security area, the order would have been given to shoot the plane down. And if the Cessna pilot had swerved the aircraft into a collision course with the F-15s, THAT would have been taken as an indication of hostile intent and would likely have led to the shootdown order being given.