Open Carry Incident - Vincennes

[stephen87]

Depends on what you mean by "most of the full frontal package." If they're truly offending me, I'm going to talk to them and ask them to calm it down.

 

[KW730]

Would you get up and leave....start a thread complaining of the rude behavior...complain to management...call LEO???

No, I wouldn't. I would mind my own damn business.

 

[Markedup]

Will this post get it to 106 pages?

I see 27 pages.
A suggestion.

1 User CP

2 General settings

3 Number of Posts to Show Per Page

I use 40

Thanks

Mark

 

[SMiller]

I see 27 pages.
A suggestion.

1 User CP

2 General settings

3 Number of Posts to Show Per Page

I use 40

Thanks

Mark

Be normal, 107 pages of fluff now...

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Be normal

Yeah. If you don't they may take it away from us.

 

[Hornett]

The logical fallacies are forcing me to post again.
I tried to stay away but I am being compelled by an irresistible force, probably OCD.

There seem to be a lot of these sort of posts. Not picking out ATM, just a good example.

So simply exercising one's rights is a "stunt" and society will ban it if we don't stop doing it? If we can't do it freely, what sort of right would you consider it now?

Historically, long guns are treated much differently than handguns.
Long guns were not carried indoors loaded. They were loaded when they were in use and unloaded when they were not.
See, speaking for myself, I are not asking people to "stop" doing anything.
What I am saying anyway is don't START carrying loaded long guns indoors.
When carrying a gun indoors you are STARTING something that has not been done until recently.
People (Society) will notice the NEW behavior and react to it.
Telling me that I want you to STOP doing something is a straw man argument designed to intentionally mislead the conversation.

AS I said before, Bring your loaded shotgun into a hunting lodge or the lodge at a skeet range and announce that it is your right to carry a loaded gun in there and you will see how fast you get banned.

Also, it has nothing to do with the gun in question being an AR, it could have been a bolt action mossberg shotgun and my objections would have been the same.

 

[Birds Away]

How long should we beat this thing? I think it's dead. No one's opinion has changed or is likely to. Maybe we should just all go have a beer.


Then we can start a thread about carrying long guns in bars while drinking. Think of the possibilities...

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Maybe we should just all go have a beer.

I'm in!

 

[stephen87]

The logical fallacies are forcing me to post again.
I tried to stay away but I am being compelled by an irresistible force, probably OCD.

There seem to be a lot of these sort of posts. Not picking out ATM, just a good example.

Historically, long guns are treated much differently than handguns.
Long guns were not carried indoors loaded. They were loaded when they were in use and unloaded when they were not.
See, speaking for myself, I are not asking people to "stop" doing anything.
What I am saying anyway is don't START carrying loaded long guns indoors.
When carrying a gun indoors you are STARTING something that has not been done until recently.
People (Society) will notice the NEW behavior and react to it.
Telling me that I want you to STOP doing something is a straw man argument designed to intentionally mislead the conversation.

AS I said before, Bring your loaded shotgun into a hunting lodge or the lodge at a skeet range and announce that it is your right to carry a loaded gun in there and you will see how fast you get banned.

Also, it has nothing to do with the gun in question being an AR, it could have been a bolt action mossberg shotgun and my objections would have been the same.

That's different. Private property rights vs police harassing you. If someone would have asked him to leave and that was it, I would still defend his right to carry but woukd recognize that he had been asked to leave. Instead, he was never asked to leave and was reprimanded in public for something that is legal. My problem is not with McDonald's. My problem is with A)the way it was handled by the officer and 1) the people in here calling him an idiot and everythjng else because he has the balls to do something you don't like.

 

[Hornett]

BOOM!
The next debate tactic rears it's head.
Deflection.

I pointed out your straw man about me STOPPING you from doing anything and you go straight to how badly the police acted.
Yes, the police acted badly.
They acted terrible.
The harassed a citizen and they should have had more class and tact than that.

What does that really have to do with the fact that the OP's FRIEND did something that was a really bad idea.
If this becomes common practice, the public at large will start to notice and react to it.

I can tell you this, what they police (I STILL SAY THE POLICE WERE BAD AND WRONG) did was very similar to what my Dad or uncle would have done to me if I had brought my loaded shotgun into the house after a morning squirrel hunt. It would not have been pretty.
Oh, btw, I have a friend that shot his 22 through the wall because it wasn't unloaded.
He missed a whole hunting season over that. Maybe he should have told his parents that it was his right to have a loaded rifle in the house
You tell me, what would an AD in a restaurant do for the cause?

 

[Hornett]

How long should we beat this thing? I think it's dead. No one's opinion has changed or is likely to. Maybe we should just all go have a beer.


Then we can start a thread about carrying long guns in bars while drinking. Think of the possibilities...

I tried to walk away, but the 'gotta carry a loaded long gun in public crowd' is very persistent and seem to be winning by attrition and cheap debate tactics.
I really tried, my mistake was going back and reading the thread some more.

 

[ATM]

The logical fallacies are forcing me to post again.
I tried to stay away but I am being compelled by an irresistible force, probably OCD.

There seem to be a lot of these sort of posts. Not picking out ATM, just a good example.

Likewise.

Historically, long guns are treated much differently than handguns.

True, long gun carry remains far less restricted than handgun carry. American society once generally considered concealing one's firearms a shady practice so they began regulating the crap out of carrying such firearms as could be hidden on a person easily. The popularity of concealed carrying handguns, despite these further restrictions, is a fairly recent twist in our history.

Long guns were not carried indoors loaded. They were loaded when they were in use and unloaded when they were not.

Black powder muskets? Back when heat and lighting were provided by open flames? Sure.
There is really no modern argument to sustain such a tradition as it was based upon a danger that would be extremely rare these days

See, speaking for myself, I are not asking people to "stop" doing anything.
What I am saying anyway is don't START carrying loaded long guns indoors.

Why? Again, if we can't START doing it freely, what sort of right would you consider it now?

And if it became prohibited, how would that be any different than not doing it to keep it legal?

When carrying a gun indoors you are STARTING something that has not been done until recently.
People (Society) will notice the NEW behavior and react to it.
Telling me that I want you to STOP doing something is a straw man argument designed to intentionally mislead the conversation.

For this discussion, suggesting that it not be done for fear that it will become banned and we won't be able to do it is the point. Starting, stopping, it matters little how you choose to reference the "don't do it" part. Certainly not a straw man fallacy.

AS I said before, Bring your loaded shotgun into a hunting lodge or the lodge at a skeet range and announce that it is your right to carry a loaded gun in there and you will see how fast you get banned.

^That right there is a straw man fallacy. Which argument point were you attempting to address with this new spin that anyone has a right to be on someone else's property? Did you create that false point just so you could refute it?

Also, it has nothing to do with the gun in question being an AR, it could have been a bolt action mossberg shotgun and my objections would have been the same.

Why do you object to long gun carry if the worst thing you claim will happen is that long gun carry will become forbidden. As an objector to the practice, wouldn't you be happy with either so long as no long guns get carried?

 

[Hornett]

For this discussion, suggesting that it not be done for fear that it will become banned and we won't be able to do it is the point.
Why do you object to long gun carry if the worst thing you claim will happen is that long gun carry will become forbidden. As an objector to the practice, wouldn't you be happy with either so long as no long guns get carried?

I object to it and suggest that it not be done because it's unsafe.
Handguns in holsters are inherently much more safe than a long gun. The trigger is covered. You don't have to handle them in any way until they are needed.
Open carry of a long gun is different, it is constantly being touched and moved and just plain fondled, even with a shoulder thing that goes up.
Just wait until the first AD hits some innocent bystander in a restaurant and see what happens. And it's just a matter of time.
I want to be able to carry my long gun in my truck to go hunting, or shooting, or for self defense without licenses, restrictions or outright bans.
These public display of long arms practices will directly affect MY safe carry of long guns in the future.

 

[churchmouse]

No, I wouldn't. I would mind my own damn business.

And subject young children to this.........Just asking.

 

[WestSider]

Just wait until the first AD hits some innocent bystander in a restaurant and see what happens.

I agree.. I just don't see how open carrying AR15's around does any good for anyone. Guns are for protection, not for political props.

 

[lovemachine]

To those who feel it is their right so just do it and others be damned. Simple point,

You are in a restaurant with your kids...a group of questionable sexuality (males) enters wearing pink ultra hot-pants showing a lot of the lower unit and frontal package, pink wife beaters and the rest of the uniform and acting the part. Openly kissing and such.

Would this offend you????

It would me.

Is it their right to act and dress in this fashion....yes it is.

Is it the correct thing to do in a family setting....no it is not.

Would you get up and leave....start a thread complaining of the rude behavior...complain to management...call LEO???

My simple point is as stated way back in the thread, just because it is legal and you can does not make it the right thing to do.

Time and a place for everything.

I have on flame retardant clothing so blast away.

Would it offend you just as much if it was 2 hot women making out with each other instead?

 

[ATM]

...Just wait until the first AD hits some innocent bystander in a restaurant and see what happens. And it's just a matter of time.

I'll wait. It will be exactly the same as when it happens with handguns now (not really that rare). Negligence is negligence. Folks are responsible for every round they discharge, intentional or not. How you can claim public reaction will somehow be different with a long gun is an unsupported stretch.

I want to be able to carry my long gun in my truck to go hunting, or shooting, or for self defense without licenses, restrictions or outright bans.
These public display of long arms practices will directly affect MY safe carry of long guns in the future.

Pure speculation. Show me this proposed legislation you fear.

 

[churchmouse]

Would it offend you just as much if it was 2 hot women making out with each other instead?

Not me my friend....Family restaurant with the little kids. That is what I am trying to say. No right minded set of parents would allow this around the kids. Just because you can....should you.

As to the hot woman making out....yeah, I have seen my share but in a gentlemen's club and other places best left for discussion elsewhere. Proper place and time is "All" I am stressing. Not the right to do but is it the right time and place to do it.

 

[Hornett]

Is it possible that there are no restrictions on long guns for exactly the reason that no one carries them around loaded indoors?
I guess time will tell.

I am going to spend some time in the funny pic thread. :-)

 

[KW730]

And subject young children to this.........Just asking.

Yes. How is two men showing their affection for each other any different than a man and a woman? Why should I attempt to shelter young children from this?

Besides, they wouldn't be subjected to anything. If they decided to stare they would get a reminder about how they need to not stare at people and should mind their own business.