Handgun training in Indiana

[jon159753]

I have done no research on the figures yet.... First, you look at the negligent discharge of firearms rate (resulting in injury) for the area being considered. Then, compare the current rate to the rate in an area where this policy is already in practice. Afterwards, factor in the costs to implement and maintain and enforce the plan. Finally, realize the fact that no amount of traing will eliminate stupid people or stupid mistakes. My guess is that people unintentionally injured by negligent shooting are about the same here as any state that requires training. Someone look it up and tell me im wrong. My guess is less than a 1.5% difference.

 

[EXLINE]

Has anyone dug deep into this bill? There is always something buried

 

[EXLINE]

Well the wait for handgun license just quadrupled. Thanks media

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Any news on anti-anti-gun legislation for this term?

 

[Jarhead77]

INGO's own Guy Relford responds (is that a .223 case kiss on your brow, Guy?).

A little birdie told me it was caused by a "scope " issue....

 

[Bill of Rights]

I'd be all for that...assuming that the training is state funded.That'd be a good option for guys like me who can't afford the amount of ammo required for formal training,much less the gas or training itself.

OK, you've already been "shown the light" in re: costs/taxes by other members, so I won't dogpile on you. I will, however, point out an additional fallacy in the easy acceptance of this hare-brained idea: Let's just presume for a moment that the funding comes not from your taxes but in the form of a tax break to the trainers. They provide the training for free and get to discount it as a business expense. So... you show up for class and are told that to pass, you have to put 10 rounds in a bottle-cap size target at 15 feet. Oh, and the target is moving, and you're shooting from a standing position on a moving platform. All 10 rounds must be completely inside the bottle cap. Any contact with the white line outside that circle is a failure. You may try again next year, or you may pay for your own second training attempt, at $300/class.

Now, obviously, they won't start with a ridiculous scenario like that. It will start easy, but expect that your children will never pass it.

What is the best way to influence the termination of these proposals?

Write letters. Make phone calls. Learn your state senator and representative's names and make sure they know your name, too. Make sure they know how you want them to vote. In the case of these letters, the Chicago way, "vote early, vote often" is completely acceptable... and make sure everyone you know who thinks like you do understands 1) why the bill needs to never reach committee and 2) how to keep it from doing so (letters and calls)
Kinda like I just did here, after my post of a week or so ago in the 2014 legislative session thread, in the "stickies" at the top of this forum.

Any news on anti-anti-gun legislation for this term?

Sure is. So far, we know about SB 7, SB 45 (this bill) and SB 46. There are a few others that expand authority for a few classes of individuals (i.e. court officers) but none yet posted that improve the situation for us.

Do not despair, however. I have it on good authority that there will be at least three good bills introduced for us, and I mean very good bills. That's the full extent of what I can say, until they are published, but my contact at the Capitol showed me some excellent info. I'll post more on this as soon as the bills are published.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

Has anyone dug deep into this bill? There is always something buried

The requirements for the training class Ms. Breaux wants us to have to pass are as follows:

A person who applies after December 31,
34 2014, for a license to carry a handgun must:
35 (1) first successfully complete a handgun safety and training
36 program that meets the requirements of this section; and
37 (2) certify under section 3(c)(6) of this chapter the person's
38 successful completion of a handgun safety and training
39 program;
40 before a license to carry a handgun may be issued to the applicant
41 under this chapter.
42 (b) A handgun safety and training program must meet the
2014 IN 45—LS 6187/DI 106
7
1 following requirements:
2 (1) The program must consist of at least eight (8) hours of
3 instruction, as specified in this section.
4 (2) The:
5 (A) program must be certified by a national or state
6 firearms training organization; and
7 (B) instructor must be certified by a national or state
8 firearms training organization as qualified to teach an
9 eight (8) hour handgun safety and training program.
10 (3) The program must provide at least five (5) hours of
11 instruction in the following:
12 (A) The safe storage, use, and handling of a handgun,
13 including safe storage, use, and handling to protect child
14 safety.
15 (B) Knowledge of ammunition.
16 (C) Handgun firing positions.
17 (D) Firearms and the law, including civil liability issues
18 and the use of deadly force. The instruction in the subject
19 described in this clause must be provided by an attorney or
20 a person trained in the use of deadly force.
21 (E) Avoiding criminal attack and controlling a violent
22 confrontation.
23 (F) All laws that apply to carrying a concealed handgun in
24 Indiana.
25 (4) The program must:
26 (A) provide at least three (3) hours of instruction on a
27 firing range; and
28 (B) require the firing of at least forty-five (45) rounds of
29 ammunition.
30 (5) The program must provide to a person who successfully
31 completes the program a certificate of completion stating
32 that:
33 (A) the program complies with this section; and
34 (B) the person has successfully completed the program.
35 The certificate must contain the printed name and signature
36 of the instructor who instructed the person.
37 (c) A person who grants a certificate of completion described in
38 subsection (b)(5) to an individual knowing that the individual did
39 not satisfactorily complete the program commits a Level 6 felony.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Do not despair, however. I have it on good authority that there will be at least three good bills introduced for us, and I mean very good bills. That's the full extent of what I can say, until they are published, but my contact at the Capitol showed me some excellent info. I'll post more on this as soon as the bills are published.

You're such a tease, Bill.

 

[Scutter01]

Why on earth would I ever support yet another barrier to firearm ownership? And what are they offering in return for this concession on our part? Oh, that's right.

NOTHING.


C'mon, just do this one little thing. It's no big deal. We promise it's the last thing. Honest! It's so reasonable. You're reasonable, right? It's just common sense to want training with a dangerous weapon, right?

How many times are you going to fall for that line before you put your foot down and tell YOUR EMPLOYEES to stop taking away your Rights?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Why on earth would I ever support yet another barrier to firearm ownership? And what are they offering in return for this concession on our part? Oh, that's right.

NOTHING.

That's not true...It'll keep your hoodie wearin' teenager safe from LEO wanna-bes.

 

[Bill of Rights]

You're such a tease, Bill.

It helps when some of the state legislators are INGO members, and they read what the people want. Obviously, we're only one part of their constituencies, but they can join in discussions here in anonymity, or they can stay out of the discussions and just read. This is a very cool thing. How better to keep your finger on the pulse of one of the hotly debated topics?

There's only so much that will happen in a single year, of course, but look at how far we've come so far? Lifetime LTCH, Castle Doctrine, Preemption, the "roaming school zone"... And yet we still have some barriers to remove, like the necessity of the LTCH (Constitutional Carry), state-level preemption, that idiotic SBS thing, even guns in locked vehicles at schools... We'll get there, but it will take some time to knock those barriers down, just like it took time to put them up.

Get your letters and your phones ready... Heck, for that matter, start now, letting your Reps know where you stand on this crap.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[arthrimus]

Do we currently have a significant problem with untrained LTCH bearing individuals discharging firearms unsafely due to their lack of training? If we do it must be the best kept secret in the midwest, because I can't for the life of me recall a single instance of this in recent history.

Do states that have such training requirements have a significantly lower number of negligent tragedies caused by carry permit holders? I haven't seen anything that makes me suspect that that is the case.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Training is great, but lets face it, a single eight hour course is not going to radically alter a person's response in a life or death situation, nor will it go far to instill good carrying habits day to day. It takes constant training for a lifetime to do that. How long till citizens are required to qualify with their firearms on a yearly basis in order to maintain their right to carry? Do you really want to take even a single step down that road? I don't, and quite frankly I'd like to see us go the other way and become a constitutional carry state, as it should be.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Threads mergeded.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

23 (F) All laws that apply to carrying a concealed handgun in
24 Indiana.

LOL. From which state is this copied?

 

[Viper1973]

Agreed... We need to stop these blatant attempts at monkeying with the current LTCH. All this does is put obstacles in the way of folks trying to use their rights. While instructors probably think this is a fantastic idea, an additional $150-300 for a husband and wife would likely make gun ownership a non-starter financially for many folks -- especially younger folks dealing with college and housing expenses.

 

[Zephri]

No no no and hell no, we shouldn't have to take a written test just to be able to carry a firearm and defend ourselves. Soon they are going to start asking for a reason and then why we need to carry. So NO.

 

[Scutter01]

No no no and hell no, we shouldn't have to take a written test just to be able to carry a firearm and defend ourselves. Soon they are going to start asking for a reason and then why we need to carry. So NO.

But haven't you heard? There's a tiny chance that other states might possibly think about starting to consider the idea of maybe one day discussing reciprocity with our LTCH at some unspecified time in the distant future if only we implemented this one completely reasonable hurdle. I know it's not in writing or anything but it'll totally happen, so it'll be completely worth it. It's really just a quick 8-hour class. Who wouldn't want more bureaucracy in the process?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Scutter, yeah but this bill, SB45 is unrelated to the two tier proposal of last year.

Mandatory training is a bad idea, but substituting this with tax deductions for gun classes, ammo, gun safes is nothing short of pure brilliance.

 

[Bill B]

My letter to Senator Mrvan:

Senator;
I am writing to express my opposition to SB 45 which would require all new applicants for a handgun license to undergo 8 hours of training.
There is no need to add expense and bureaucratic layers to process already in place. I believe that this bill is a solution in search of a problem. What percentage of handgun incidents in Indiana involve citizens with a License to Carry a Handgun? I suspect it is very low. Is the incidence rate lower in states with a training requirement? I think not. Not to mention that it would violate Sec. 32 of the state Constitution by adding a financial burden to people that wish to exercise their rights. This amounts to the same thing as a poll tax, and we both know that poll taxes are illegal.

 

[Phil502]

The operative word here is "Basic".

Want combat training? That's going to be MUCH more involved than an 8 hour course, and a LOT more expensive.

Absolutely true, wish there was more oppurtunities up north here for stuff like that. I took the Basic course just to refamiliarise myself with pistols and was real happy with it.