2014 special qualifier match listing??

[Friction]

2014 special classifier match listing??

Does anyone have a list of the clubs in the IN/OH/KY/IL area that are already scheduled to run special classifiers this season? If you don't have a complete list but know of an event somewhere please list details below.

Thanks

 

[jakemartens]

So far Wildcat is planning on one is April, but no other club has asked to have one set up yet

 

[rvb]

So far Wildcat is planning on one is April, but no other club has asked to have one set up yet

When does the new system go into effect? Clubs don't need permission or to give advance notice once that happens, right?

-rvb

 

[jakemartens]

When does the new system go into effect? Clubs don't need permission or to give advance notice once that happens, right?

-rvb

Running more than one classifier in a match starts now, running a special classifier still needs notification

 

[Friction]

So far Wildcat is planning on one is April, but no other club has asked to have one set up yet

Thanks


Is that the USPSA event on the calendar for 5 Apr, 10am start time?

 

[rvb]

Running more than one classifier in a match starts now, running a special classifier still needs notification

ok, then help me understand.... what is the difference between a match with say 4-6 classifiers in it and a special classifier?

the member report stated "the restriction of one classifier per match without a special classifier is also removed." When I first read it I took it to mean you don't need to do "special classifiers" any more, just submit as many classifier scores per match as you wish. Now I see that's not necessarily what it says, but I don't know what the difference is?

-rvb

 

[jakemartens]

ok, then help me understand.... what is the difference between a match with say 4-6 classifiers in it and a special classifier?

the member report stated "the restriction of one classifier per match without a special classifier is also removed." When I first read it I took it to mean you don't need to do "special classifiers" any more, just submit as many classifier scores per match as you wish. Now I see that's not necessarily what it says, but I don't know what the difference is?

-rvb

I sent an email to Val to get an explanation, this is above my pay grade

 

[jakemartens]

you will not have to give prior approval to any clubs that want to run multiple classifiers. The fee schedule is already built in to EzWin and PractiScore, but they will have to specify “Special” in order for the scoring systems to pick up all the classifiers. The maximum currently is six classifiers, but that may change. We will let the clubs and SCs know when it does.
Good luck and good shooting!
Val

 

[rvb]

thanks, Jake, for getting the scoop.

So less to do for MDs/SCs (not that it was a big burdon) = good.
Less central knowledge (w/in the section) about when these are being held (specifically for questions like the OP's) = bad.
General responsiveness and willingness to change/improve/move-fwd at HQ = good.

does that about sum it up?

-rvb

 

[Bosshoss]

One thing I like about this is now some clubs could if they like set up 2 classifiers in 1 bay and now have 7 stages in a match.

Just kidding or am I.

 

[Rob377]

One thing I like about this is now some clubs could if they like set up 2 classifiers in 1 bay and now have 7 stages in a match.

Just kidding or am I.

We'll be running 7 at ACC.

 

[rvb]

One thing I like about this is now some clubs could if they like set up 2 classifiers in 1 bay and now have 7 stages in a match.

Just kidding or am I.

that's exactly what I was thinking when I read that in the member update. We have a bay we often put a classifier and a med course or speed shoot in. Especially early in the yr when new folks are wanting to get an initial classification or folks want to get classified in a new division, we could put a couple classifiers in there... gives some flexibility to adapt to what the shooters want. Some folks want to get classified faster, some don't want any classifiers... you could adapt at different times of the yr.

If several clubs did two for their first match of the yr, a new shooter could get classified in just two matches...

-rvb

 

[jakemartens]

thanks, Jake, for getting the scoop.

So less to do for MDs/SCs (not that it was a big burdon) = good.
Less central knowledge (w/in the section) about when these are being held (specifically for questions like the OP's) = bad.
General responsiveness and willingness to change/improve/move-fwd at HQ = good.

does that about sum it up?

-rvb

I like it for exactly what Paul said, putting two in 1 bay, helps match flow, helps people get classified quicker
I don't like it because I believe it could/will lead to grandbagging

Let's put 4 classifiers out there, run the crap out of them and get our cards from it.

I am afraid that this part of this change was over looked in making this decision or if it wasn't over looked the idea of making more revenue off of classifiers out weighed the integrity of the system

 

[riverman67]

The system has no integrity.
I personally don't want to shoot any classifiers.They are boring and don't represent all the skills needed on field courses.
Until most of them require movement,the system can't possibly represent an individuals ability.

 

[rvb]

I like it for exactly what Paul said, putting two in 1 bay, helps match flow, helps people get classified quicker
I don't like it because I believe it could/will lead to grandbagging

Let's put 4 classifiers out there, run the crap out of them and get our cards from it.

I am afraid that this part of this change was over looked in making this decision or if it wasn't over looked the idea of making more revenue off of classifiers out weighed the integrity of the system

First, I don't care if folks grandbag. Go for it.

Second, how long can a match director get away with that? There are folks that would rather see NO classifiers... they aren't going to keep showing up to matches that are running 1/2 or more of their stages as classifiers. People will stop showing up, matches will get boring. I think that would be self-correcting behavior. Once, maybe twice per year I see a club getting away w/ doing multiple classifiers.

The real change that might cause problems is no longer limiting the number of classifiers that can be submitted per club. If you really want to grandbag, now you call your weekly practice session a "match," set up a couple classifiers, burn them a couple times each, and boom get 100+ classifier scores submitted per year from your club. a blind monkey could 'smoke and hope' and pull out a few 100% runs, esp if you pick the classifiers w/ the easier hhfs.

They should have raised the limit, not removed it.

-rvb

 

[praff]

They (classifiers) are boring and don't represent all the skills needed on field courses.
Until most of them require movement,the system can't possibly represent an individuals ability.

+1.... As a newer shooter, my observation (which carries as much weight as a helium filled balloon) is that the skills required for most stages that are setup at local clubs are greater that the skills required for classifiers.

1. Non-classifier stages take more than a little thought to plan strategy and usually there is more than one way to shoot them....not so with classifiers.
2. Non-classifier stages are usually longer in duration and shot count (requiring more focus for a longer period of time) than classifier stages.
3. Non-classifier stages usually require much more movement to get through a stage while shooting and reloading.
4. Non-classifier stages usually require movement forward/backward and left/right in the same stage.....not so with most classifiers.

I have only shot a handfull of classifiers so maybe my view is a bit skewed, but it sure seems like there is quite a bit of difference between the "standards" and the actual stages in the games.

I do however understand the need for some type of standard so shooters and the organization can compare different skill levels across the sport.

 

[rvb]

there are a million threads on the internet about what is broken about the classifier system, or if it's broken at all. we dont need another.
Just remember it was intended to lump shooters of similar shooting skill level into groups. It does that wonderfully if you shoot it honestly.
It was not meant to equate to where you should finish in match results (or we wouldn't need to hold the matches).
2c
-rvb

 

[jakemartens]

There are several classifiers with movement, no one sets them up

And rvb that is what I meant a Saturday "practice session" turns into a match for five guys burning down classifiers until they get what they want and turned in

 

[praff]

there are a million threads on the internet about what is broken about the classifier system, or if it's broken at all. we dont need another.
Just remember it was intended to lump shooters of similar shooting skill level into groups. It does that wonderfully if you shoot it honestly.
It was not meant to equate to where you should finish in match results (or we wouldn't need to hold the matches).
2c
-rvb

my my comments were nothing more than simple observations. I meant no disrespect to the organization or anyone that volunteers their time to help better the sport. I am grateful that such a sport exists and I understand the need for the classification system. Good point on shooting them honestly. Maybe the rule allowing multiple attempts at a classifier at a match could be modified. Dunno just thinking out loud.

 

[rvb]

Sorry praff, didn't intend it to come accross as harsh. typing fast, multitasking, etc. The thread had drifted a lot already and I was learning some new things here, too, and wanted to avoid a re-hash. appologies.

If we modify the rules, I think the fix is to put in a new limit on the number of classifiers a club can submit, eg instead of the old 12 limit, make it 18 or 24, and it may not be a problem, so I'd say we only need to do that IF we see a club submitting dozens of 5-shooter 'matches' nad IF the BoD feels such grandbagging is really a problem.

-rvb