What's wrong with this picture?

[Rob377]

.. Or you could be running or moving explosively while reloading, making a glance at your magwell an opportunity to stumble.

Think of it like an ideal shooting stance-- its a luxury that you take if its afforded to you.

Disagree here. I do a bit more running around while reloading than most. If you can chew gum and walk at the same time, you can still look the mag in while running, and even do so while running to a very specific spot. Even in less than ideal ground conditions. (the mud is ankle deep in a lot of spots in the video below, and there are pieces of 2x2 fault line hiding in the mud threatening to trip)

Why? because your eyes are only on the magwell for 0.5 seconds +/- .1, and do have peripheral vision that works just fine for that .5 seconds.

Running around trying to reload is actually that much more reason to look it in. When you're running or moving, that perfect standing reload "muscle memory pattern" doesn't really apply any more. The gun is bouncing around a little, you're moving around a little.

[video=youtube;o93ccabWRMk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o93ccabWRMk[/video]

 

[goinggreyfast]

Your hat is far too cool for the gun you're using.

Mrs GGF said the hat looks just fine Bro.

 

[esrice]

Disagree here. I do a bit more running around while reloading than most. If you can chew gum and walk at the same time, you can still look the mag in while running, and even do so while running to a very specific spot. Even in less than ideal ground conditions. (the mud is ankle deep in a lot of spots in the video below, and there are pieces of 2x2 fault line hiding in the mud threatening to trip)

I still see working in an area of known conditions (even if it's muddy) very different than moving through an area you're seeing for the first time. Before the buzzer went off you knew it was muddy, and you knew where the obstacles were. I see that as a luxury you can't always plan around. Again, practice looking the mag in, look it in if you can, but also be able to do it without looking if necessary. As Jackson stated above, those who look it in regularly should have no problems doing it without looking.

 

[Rob377]

I still see working in an area of known conditions (even if it's muddy) very different than moving through an area you're seeing for the first time. Before the buzzer went off you knew it was muddy, and you knew where the obstacles were. I see that as a luxury you can't always plan around. Again, practice looking the mag in, look it in if you can, but also be able to do it without looking if necessary. As Jackson stated above, those who look it in regularly should have no problems doing it without looking.

Yeah, that's just incorrect. But prove me wrong. Show me a bunch of efficient consistent no look reloads while running. No-look leads to bad consistency and reliability even in ideal conditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROBbag-NAJI&feature=youtube_gdata_player


ETA: If you've got your eyes up, you're not looking at the ground in front of you, not even peripherally, which means you'll miss the things likely to trip over anyway. Looking at the video above, I really doubt that person would see a root or curb that he were about to trip over. So this logic fails on a few levels.

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube_share;vJDp6x3FHsQ]http://youtu.be/vJDp6x3FHsQ[/video]

 

[HICKMAN]

I think one of the things I picked up in Combat Focus Shooting was keeping the gun pointed forward at high compressed ready.

Like this:

[video=youtube_share;D0Rv8IU2tFk]http://youtu.be/D0Rv8IU2tFk[/video]

I've seen some say that reloading "in the workspace" might give an attacker the chance to push your gun back and smash you in the face with it.

I still reload up in my face, but it's something to think about.

 

[cedartop]

I think one of the things I picked up in Combat Focus Shooting was keeping the gun pointed forward at high compressed ready.

Like this:

.
I've seen some say that reloading "in the workspace" might give an attacker the chance to push your gun back and smash you in the face with it.

I still reload up in my face, but it's something to think about.

I may have mentioned that after having met Rob, I like him on a personal level, but there is still a lot I disagree with him about. Most of that video for example.

 

[esrice]

Yeah, that's just incorrect. But prove me wrong. Show me a bunch of efficient consistent no look reloads while running. No-look leads to bad consistency and reliability even in ideal conditions.

You're intentionally missing the point. I've never suggested that no-look reloads are more efficient (quite the opposite). Just that there may be times outside of the competition world when reloading without looking may be necessary.

 

[Jackson]

I still see working in an area of known conditions (even if it's muddy) very different than moving through an area you're seeing for the first time. Before the buzzer went off you knew it was muddy, and you knew where the obstacles were. I see that as a luxury you can't always plan around. Again, practice looking the mag in, look it in if you can, but also be able to do it without looking if necessary. As Jackson stated above, those who look it in regularly should have no problems doing it without looking.

I did say that. However... When I am moving I am much more likely to look the magazine in to the mag well than any other time. The faster I'm moving and the rougher the terrain, the more I feel I need to look at the mag well when I reload. It isn't for speed, because I am not fast. It is for reliability and smoothness of action. Doing it one time without fumbling is much better than doing it twice becuase I didn't look, or worse yet, dropping the magazine.

I should also say that I don't have a problem looking it in when I'm not moving. I don't know that I do it consistently, but I'd probably be faster and more reliable if I did.

 

[Jackson]

You're intentionally missing the point. I've never suggested that no-look reloads are more efficient (quite the opposite). Just that there may be times outside of the competition world when reloading without looking may be necessary.

I don't know if we can prove it's necessary. I think we can say it is likely, though. I believe its highly likely there would be times in and out of competition that would be stressful and divert ones visual attention away from the reloading task.

I would also clarify my above statement to say that, those who practice reloads consistely will be able to perform the same action with less visual information than someone who is less practiced. That may mean not looking at all. It might mean a quick glance to index the mag to the mag well. A 0.10 second glance may suffice for Rob to index the magazine, where I have to glance for 0.40 seconds. That could seem insignificant, or it could mean the world. It depends on what I'm glancing away from, I guess.

 

[Jackson]

I think one of the things I picked up in Combat Focus Shooting was keeping the gun pointed forward at high compressed ready.

Like this:

[Removed video to save space]

I've seen some say that reloading "in the workspace" might give an attacker the chance to push your gun back and smash you in the face with it.

I still reload up in my face, but it's something to think about.

I've heard this too. If someone is within the distance where they could reach the gun, I should probably be doing something other than trying to reload. If I'm going to attempt the reload, I should do it in the fastest way I possibly can. But if someone is going to grab the gun, I should have addressed them before I attempted to reload.

 

[Rob377]

You're intentionally missing the point. I've never suggested that no-look reloads are more efficient (quite the opposite). Just that there may be times outside of the competition world when reloading without looking may be necessary.

No, I get the point. I disagree with the premise that they're necessary because "you might stumble" (as well as the other statements)

 

[actaeon277]

How about this?

If you practice reloads, whichever method you use, you're probably helping your chances of living.

 

[Manatee]

It takes more training to consistently excel at a no-look reload. I pretty much agree with Jackson on his points. All of them.

 

[HICKMAN]

I'm not saying Rob's method is good or not. I'm saying it's something to think about.

But if someone is going to grab the gun, I should have addressed them before I attempted to reload.

sound great, unless a mag got ejected during the struggle for the gun.

Like many others, I'm trying to train with as many folks as I can afford, as I can.

Looking forward to a Close Range Gunfighting class

 

[Jackson]

I'm not saying Rob's method is good or not. I'm saying it's something to think about.



sound great, unless a mag got ejected during the struggle for the gun.

Like many others, I'm trying to train with as many folks as I can afford, as I can.

Looking forward to a Close Range Gunfighting class

If the mag gets ejected while I am struggling over the gun, I now have a one-shot gun and almost no hope of reloading until I get the guy off me. Tying up my hands to attempt a reload will likely end with me being beaten with my own gun. In my experience (and I am not an experienced or competent grappler), there is no opportunity for that kind of stuff. The entire focus should be on gaining a dominant position, creating space, and doing dammage with whatever faculties are immediately available. My gun fight just turned in to a non-gunfight. (Unless he has a gun, then I guess I have other problems and maybe should ditch my gun to try and control or use his. Could be he's just holding it for me until I can shoot him with it.)

 

[HICKMAN]

we can play if, ands and buts all day.

I'm just saying I see some merit in the way Pincus teaches it. It's perfectly fine if you do not.

 

[Jackson]

we can play if, ands and buts all day.

I'm just saying I see some merit in the way Pincus teaches it. It's perfectly fine if you do not.

You brought up the specific ifs and buts. I was just responding with my experience. Reload the gun and get it back in to play however you like. I would also wager that most gunfights are not won on reload speed. I'd be curious to hear about any that were.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Orange ear plugs clash with the rest of the ensemble!

 

[Shay]

I think one of the things I picked up in Combat Focus Shooting was keeping the gun pointed forward at high compressed ready.


I've seen some say that reloading "in the workspace" might give an attacker the chance to push your gun back and smash you in the face with it.

I still reload up in my face, but it's something to think about.

Where is your gun pointing while you reload? Exactly at the threat the entire time or in some general direction of the threat. "Do not let your muzzle cross anything you are not willing to destroy". A gun kept parallel to the earth throughout a reload will probably point at a great many things that do not need to have guns pointed at them. Works well in the controlled environment of the shooting range. Maybe not so well in the mall parking lot.