OCing and that Harvard Professor....

[wally05]

There was no "public" involved. The man was on his private property. The reason the charges were dropped was that they were BS and did not rise to the level of the statute.

Where is that quoted from? Is that a new fact that has just come up?

If he was off his property, he was in the area of the public. I haven't seen or heard any facts that say he was on his property when he was arrested.

 

[55spartan]

i am just waiting for 2012

 

[Ramen]

You think they are asinine until some idiot starts running all around your neighborhood yelling and screaming all night...

I think what has clouded the issue is the fact that everytime someone yells "racist cop," everyone instantly believes the cop was/is at fault.

HE DIDN'T ARREST HIM FOR SPEAKING HIS MIND, HE ARRESTED HIM FOR YELLING AND SCREAMING AND DISRUPTING THE PUBLIC.

People don't run around screaming every night law or not. If someone comes onto MY property and starts yelling and screaming, he will be trespassing. If he wants to stand in the road, I don't really care. I will turn on the fan and go to sleep. If someone is yelling and screaming they probably need help anyway. Maybe I should check on them?

I believe that most people are good, honest citizens and won't disrupt the neighborhood just because they can. If they are doing it, then they have a good reason. Having a law is silly since it just means that people are less likely to do it when they believe they have a good reason. It limits protest, dissent, and discussion. Perhaps I am living in a fantasy world.

I don't think someone yelling racist cop means the cop is at fault. I would need to evaluate the entire situation to draw that conclusion. I don't think the officer was being racist at all in this situation. I think he was doing his job enforcing a personal-rights limiting law. However, if Gates was on someone else's private property then I believe property rights supersede his speech rights.

The pictures I have seen have the man being arrested on his porch. That is his property. Kids yell and scream all the time in their yards. Can someone get them arrested for disturbing the public?

 

[AndersonIN]

Where is that quoted from? Is that a new fact that has just come up?

If he was off his property, he was in the area of the public. I haven't seen or heard any facts that say he was on his property when he was arrested.

Odd, no "public" involved. The lady who placed the original 911 call has stated by her lawyer that she overhead Gates screaming and ranting both inside the house and out!

So much for NO public.

 

[mrjarrell]

Where is that quoted from? Is that a new fact that has just come up?

If he was off his property, he was in the area of the public. I haven't seen or heard any facts that say he was on his property when he was arrested.

Hmm...apparently you've avoided looking at the picture of his arrest, where he's being led from his house. On his property.

 

[bigus_D]

Where is that quoted from? Is that a new fact that has just come up?

If he was off his property, he was in the area of the public. I haven't seen or heard any facts that say he was on his property when he was arrested.

Also, the arrest report clearly states this fact... (so it must be 100% true! )

 

[Timjoebillybob]

There was no "public" involved. The man was on his private property. The reason the charges were dropped was that they were BS and did not rise to the level of the statute.

Yes he was on his own property, but if I'm outside screaming the police can warn me under the local noise ordinance and if I fail to comply with their requests to stop I can be arrested.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Odd, no "public" involved. The lady who placed the original 911 call has stated by her lawyer that she overhead Gates screaming and ranting both inside the house and out!

So much for NO public.

And that the police report states several people (non LEO) standing around staring.

 

[Roadie]

Not sure where everyone is getting the idea you can't "disturb the peace" on your property.

My question is, what if the Officer HAD walked away without verifying Gates ID, and he WAS being held under duress and was acting the fool to get the cop to check things out? Officer leaves, badguy WAS in the house, uh oh. OR what if Gates was the BG? The Officer is supposed to say "Oh, OK, since you are yelling at me, accusing me of being a racist, this must be your house."

Did the Officer over react? Possibly. Was it ever said that the campus Police confirmed Gates' identity?

I have to agree with other posters that said both sides could have handled this better. However, if I had to pick who started the ruckus, it was clearly Gates.. IMHO.

 

[bigus_D]

Gates provided faculty ID. Cop called campus security. Campus security came out and verified that they knew him. All of this according to the arresting officer.

 

[wally05]

Not sure where everyone is getting the idea you can't "disturb the peace" on your property.

My question is, what if the Officer HAD walked away without verifying Gates ID, and he WAS being held under duress and was acting the fool to get the cop to check things out? Officer leaves, badguy WAS in the house, uh oh. OR what if Gates was the BG? The Officer is supposed to say "Oh, OK, since you are yelling at me, accusing me of being a racist, this must be your house."

Did the Officer over react? Possibly. Was it ever said that the campus Police confirmed Gates' identity?

I have to agree with other posters that said both sides could have handled this better. However, if I had to pick who started the ruckus, it was clearly Gates.. IMHO.

Of course, to many people, apparently it wouldn't have mattered if he was actually a robber or not. As long as you shout "you're a racist" it's a free pass. And no, Harvard PD never verified his ID. The report says he was trying to radio them and had to leave b/c Gates was yelling. Gates wasn't in his house when he was arrested. I don't know what their state code said, but if he was outside and drawing attention, then it was arrestable.

If you have a problem with it, then change the state law. If the people are not going to do that, a civil lawsuit is worthless and nothing will come of it. If the department felt that the officer was in the wrong, they'd do more than "discuss" other ways of handling it (as they announced they are going to do). He'd be on unpaid leave and facing other punishment.

Also, I never said cops don't lie on their reports. I was just pointing out that an officer with a record like Crowley's would show that he's been an upstanding cop for a very long time. Whereas, many are taking the side of the man that's been talking racism for years.

 

[Joe Williams]

Has anyone else noticed that while Gates has singled out Crowley for his ire, he's never said one word about the black police officer that was there... not one. Now, if the arrest was really bad, why isn't Gates hating on all the cops involved, instead of just shouting out his hatred at the white cop? What reason other than racism, than that he quite simply hates whites?

Well, there is one other reason: Money. He's got a speaking tour coming up. Making news for hating whitey will help pack his auditoriums with fellow white hating racists.... his very own little KKK rallies on college campuses, making him a fortune. Badmouthing the black police officer just wouldn't have generated the same free publicity, would it?

 

[Ramen]

Of course, to many people, apparently it wouldn't have mattered if he was actually a robber or not. As long as you shout "you're a racist" it's a free pass. And no, Harvard PD never verified his ID. The report says he was trying to radio them and had to leave b/c Gates was yelling. Gates wasn't in his house when he was arrested. I don't know what their state code said, but if he was outside and drawing attention, then it was arrestable.

I don't believe anyone posting in this thread has stated that calling a police officer a racist automatically puts the officer in the wrong. I think the people who are arguing against the arrest are saying you shouldn't be arrested for yelling on your own property(His porch in this case), even if you are a total jackass while you do it.

That makes it a first amendment issue, not a race issue.

Remember that many of us are saying these things based on the limited information that we have, so of course we could draw an incorrect conclusion of the situation.


Back to the original point of this thread. I don't think acting like an idiot when a police office checks your license is smart. Remaining calm is almost always the better choice. You can take action against any mishandling of the law after the incident. If gates had remained calm there would have been no arrest, and no one would be in the wrong.

I wouldn't cover the gun unless I felt my life was in danger though. If I was arrested for OCing (assuming I was calm and friendly and not breaking the law) it would help get LEOs that don't know this part of the law informed.

 

[Ramen]

Has anyone else noticed that while Gates has singled out Crowley for his ire, he's never said one word about the black police officer that was there... not one. Now, if the arrest was really bad, why isn't Gates hating on all the cops involved, instead of just shouting out his hatred at the white cop? What reason other than racism, than that he quite simply hates whites?

Well, there is one other reason: Money. He's got a speaking tour coming up. Making news for hating whitey will help pack his auditoriums with fellow white hating racists.... his very own little KKK rallies on college campuses, making him a fortune. Badmouthing the black police officer just wouldn't have generated the same free publicity, would it?

+1 Great point! I agree.

 

[wally05]

Has anyone else noticed that while Gates has singled out Crowley for his ire, he's never said one word about the black police officer that was there... not one. Now, if the arrest was really bad, why isn't Gates hating on all the cops involved, instead of just shouting out his hatred at the white cop? What reason other than racism, than that he quite simply hates whites?

Well, there is one other reason: Money. He's got a speaking tour coming up. Making news for hating whitey will help pack his auditoriums with fellow white hating racists.... his very own little KKK rallies on college campuses, making him a fortune. Badmouthing the black police officer just wouldn't have generated the same free publicity, would it?

Very good point.

 

[wally05]

I don't believe anyone posting in this thread has stated that calling a police officer a racist automatically puts the officer in the wrong. I think the people who are arguing against the arrest are saying you shouldn't be arrested for yelling on your own property(His porch in this case), even if you are a total jackass while you do it.

That makes it a first amendment issue, not a race issue.

Remember that many of us are saying these things based on the limited information that we have, so of course we could draw an incorrect conclusion of the situation.


Back to the original point of this thread. I don't think acting like an idiot when a police office checks your license is smart. Remaining calm is almost always the better choice. You can take action against any mishandling of the law after the incident. If gates had remained calm there would have been no arrest, and no one would be in the wrong.

I wouldn't cover the gun unless I felt my life was in danger though. If I was arrested for OCing (assuming I was calm and friendly and not breaking the law) it would help get LEOs that don't know this part of the law informed.

Maybe..

I've heard a lot of complaining about it, but no one has solution. What if it's your neighborhood or you next door to the guy that won't stop yelling about cops being racist. Would you be so patient to his "first amendment" right?

Where is the cutoff where it quits being someone just expressing their 1st amendment right and becomes disturbing others and their peace? It's not like the officer came up and cuffed him right away. He asked him to calm down. He was shouting and yelling and disturbing others.

Who knows... Crowley is a "peace" officer trying to keep the "peace." Anyone have good suggestions for a compromise?

 

[bigus_D]

Anyone have good suggestions for a compromise?

In this particular case, a good compromise would have been for the cop to say, "sorry for the inconvenience" and then leave his property. I bet he would have stopped yelling then.

Another good compromise would have been for Gates to grow up a little, understand the job the cop was trying to do and leave it at that. I don't know why Gates let the cop in his house or why Gates left the inside of his house... both stupid moves in my opinion.

At this point it is a little late for compromise aside from dropping the charges, which is a pretty good one after the fact.

I return to my original position that anybody seeing this as a one sided fail needs to open their mind to the possiblity that they don't know everything.

 

[wally05]

I'm talking about the bigger picture. Everybody wants to say this was an attack on his 1st amendment rights...

 

[bigus_D]

I'm talking about the bigger picture. Everybody wants to say this was an attack on his 1st amendment rights...

If I'm not allowed to stand on my front porch and yell whatever I want... during the middle of the day... Do I have a 1st amendment right. I don't think so.

I'll put 10 bucks down that the seven or so reported neighboors standing around had gathered because they saw the police cars parked out front... not because the were 'disturbed' by this ranting maniac.

I agree with the comments that this guy was arrested for contempt of cop. My opinion is that both parties acted 'stupidly'. To the original OP, if a cop tells me to cover up, "I'll take that under advisement... Am I free to go" no need to be rude (even if it is my 1st admendment right).

 

[finity]

I have made a lot of disorderly arrests. I would have also arrested the big mouth racist punk.

I don't think there's a law against being a big-mouth racist punk. If so then almost every Klan member who attended a rally would be in jail.

Would you arrest everyone of them?

If not then why not? Because they weren't being a "big-mouth racist punk" towards you?

So the question returns to would the person be arrested because he is a "big-mouth racist punk" or because he disrespected you?

No one has to like it.

true.

& you don't have to like it when people don't show respect for LEO's when others in your profession abuse their power & act like big mouth thugs.