Will it ever end? Gary PD Officer Killed

[phylodog]

Who said that being cursed at by a cop is worse than being shot by a thug?

If your proposal is that we allow cops to curse at people... ok. I'm not sure what it accomplishes, and it makes one appear unprofessional. Have you found that you can scare criminals into becoming non-criminals by cursing at them?

I apologize if you're unable to understand my point.

 

[Hawkeye]

...as long as it is believed that being cursed at by a cop is worse than being shot by a thug for being out after dark ...

Are you really trying to say that because cops are expected not to use harsh or crude language, that it give free reign to "thugs" to shoot people? I doubt it, but that seems to be what you wrote. I would be interested in hearing what you think would be a reasonable solution. I suspect we may not be far off on that.

 

[jbombelli]

I apologize if you're unable to understand my point.

I'm pretty sure I understood the point. I also get why you're not posting it. It's the same reason I'm not talking about what happens after someone other than me dangles a camera over his shoulder and walks through gang infested territory to get some ice cream.

 

[phylodog]

Are you really trying to say that because cops are expected not to use harsh or crude language, that it give free reign to "thugs" to shoot people? I doubt it, but that seems to be what you wrote. I would be interested in hearing what you think would be a reasonable solution. I suspect we may not be far off on that.

We have many willing and able bodied people in this city who get paid to wear a uniform and are expected to provide some level of safety to the city. For years they've been burdened to wear kid gloves when dealing with thugs which obviously isn't working. My suggestion is that we allow the gloves to come off, fight fire with fire, communicate with the thugs in the only means they understand.

These aren't pointed at anyone in particular:
-Perhaps grab a video camera and record some thugs breaking the law and turn that over to the police rather than recording the police while trying to bait them into a confrontation.
-Come to the realization that cops aren't shooting 7 innocent people at a bar in Broad Ripple, aren't shooting at someone they bump into at a gas station, aren't shooting 9 innocent people at the Summer Celebration downtown and aren't helping the city break murder records.
-Don't get sucked in by edited videos posted online which tell only that part of the story that fits someone's agenda.
-Understand that it's a difficult job and there might be 4 people on the planet who could do it to everyone's satisfaction, as long as half of the people aren't paying attention.

 

[churchmouse]

Who said that being cursed at by a cop is worse than being shot by a thug?

If your proposal is that we allow cops to curse at people... ok. I'm not sure what it accomplishes, and it makes one appear unprofessional. Have you found that you can scare criminals into becoming non-criminals by cursing at them?

You guys....yes multiple....are stuck on the language thing.

I want them caught/tried/incarcerated for the max time allowed by law. I believe we could all get behind that.

This group/class/culture (call it what ever) has no fear of LEO at all. If they get roughed up in a resisting they sue on civil rights charges. If you resist you are going to get roughed up. That is what happened to Major senior. Major Minor did not let it get that far.

If you talk rough they get all sensitive and press charges. All of this diverts away from the fact they are Thugs. Career criminals and repeat offenders. The PC environment we are being forced to live in gives them Ammo to use against us.

These dirt bag live in a code of violence. A serious tune up could not possibly hurt......
Might get their attention if anything could.

 

[rambone]

We have many willing and able bodied people in this city who get paid to wear a uniform and are expected to provide some level of safety to the city. For years they've been burdened to wear kid gloves when dealing with thugs which obviously isn't working. My suggestion is that we allow the gloves to come off, fight fire with fire, communicate with the thugs in the only means they understand.

How are the police restrained with "kid gloves"?

 

[steveh_131]

My suggestion is that we allow the gloves to come off, fight fire with fire, communicate with the thugs in the only means they understand.

Can you provide specifics for what this means? None of your following suggestions have anything to do with how the police 'communicate' with thugs.

These aren't pointed at anyone in particular:
-Perhaps grab a video camera and record some thugs breaking the law and turn that over to the police rather than recording the police while trying to bait them into a confrontation.
-Come to the realization that cops aren't shooting 7 innocent people at a bar in Broad Ripple, aren't shooting at someone they bump into at a gas station, aren't shooting 9 innocent people at the Summer Celebration downtown and aren't helping the city break murder records.
-Don't get sucked in by edited videos posted online which tell only that part of the story that fits someone's agenda.
-Understand that it's a difficult job and there might be 4 people on the planet who could do it to everyone's satisfaction, as long as half of the people aren't paying attention.

These are not unreasonable at all, but we do need to strike a balance. Keeping the criminal element in check is certainly important, I agree with you on that. But it is equally important, if not more so, to keep government tyranny in check. Why not do both?

You guys....yes multiple....are stuck on the language thing.

Well, it's the only tangible example that we've been given. Maybe if you guys would be blunt and speak your mind we could cut through the B.S.

I want them caught/tried/incarcerated for the max time allowed by law. I believe we could all get behind that.

For violent crimes, absolutely.

This group/class/culture (call it what ever) has no fear of LEO at all. If they get roughed up in a resisting they sue on civil rights charges. If you resist you are going to get roughed up. That is what happened to Major senior. Major Minor did not let it get that far.

If you talk rough they get all sensitive and press charges. All of this diverts away from the fact they are Thugs. Career criminals and repeat offenders. The PC environment we are being forced to live in gives them Ammo to use against us.

These dirt bag live in a code of violence. A serious tune up could not possibly hurt......
Might get their attention if anything could.

You're right, to a limited extent. Some of these criminals fit this description. Some don't. Some of them just made a mistake. Some of the people being roughed up aren't criminals at all.

Lock away the violent criminals. Cursing at them and roughing them up accomplishes nothing. You think it teaches them a lesson or something? This guy was probably cursed at and roughed up more than once in his life by the police, and he probably earned it. His dad certainly received his share. Did the son learn his lesson? Did it get his attention? Is this the outcome you're looking for?

We have a bill of rights for a reason. We abide by due process for a reason. We consider folks innocent until proven guilty for a reason.

 

[phylodog]

How are the police restrained with "kid gloves"?

 

[phylodog]

Can you provide specifics for what this means? None of your following suggestions have anything to do with how the police 'communicate' with thugs.

As I mentioned to Rambone, if you think you're cunning enough to play stupid and get me to post something that can be used against me you're either underestimating me or overestimating yourself, or both. Again, I'll apologize if you aren't able to understand but I suspect that's not the case.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Cops are civilians too. You see, that is part of the issue. The mindset militarizes cops. Separates them from the community that they are "sworn to serve and protect".

No, we aren't. Neither are firefighters. Take a look in the dictionary.

Do you believe that our military is separated from us? That they no longer care about the civilian world or the people they protect? After all, they are the most militarized of any of us, being the military and all.

I've been in both uniforms. Last I checked, I worked for, and ultimately answered to, civilian leadership in both. That's something that tends to get lost in that conversation. We aren't a military dictatorship, regardless of the equipment that the military has, because the military answers to civilian authority.

Is this actually up for discussion or is it still too sensitive to talk about? You've been lobbing hand grenades in all these threads.

We've discussed it at length in multiple threads. You know my opinion, I know yours. If an armored vehicle would have saved any particular officer on any particular run is not the basis for my opinion. Just like there are appropriate times to carry a rifle, there are appropriate times to deploy armored transport. I am not scared of the National Guard because they have tanks and APCs. I am not afraid of the Air Force with their ability to bomb me to the stone age before I knew they were there. I am not afraid of the Navy even though they have nuclear weapons in submarines. I am not afraid of tools, I am afraid of actions, which is why I continue to support YOUR rights to own firearms despite seeing the results in terms of crime and accidental injury that OTHER gun owners do on a daily basis, including murder cops and civilians.

 

[rambone]

As I mentioned to Rambone, if you think you're cunning enough to play stupid and get me to post something that can be used against me you're either underestimating me or overestimating yourself, or both. Again, I'll apologize if you aren't able to understand but I suspect that's not the case.

How would advocating police brutality be used against you?

 

[hornadylnl]

No, we aren't. Neither are firefighters. Take a look in the dictionary.

Do you believe that our military is separated from us? That they no longer care about the civilian world or the people they protect? After all, they are the most militarized of any of us, being the military and all.

I've been in both uniforms. Last I checked, I worked for, and ultimately answered to, civilian leadership in both. That's something that tends to get lost in that conversation. We aren't a military dictatorship, regardless of the equipment that the military has, because the military answers to civilian authority.



We've discussed it at length in multiple threads. You know my opinion, I know yours. If an armored vehicle would have saved any particular officer on any particular run is not the basis for my opinion. Just like there are appropriate times to carry a rifle, there are appropriate times to deploy armored transport. I am not scared of the National Guard because they have tanks and APCs. I am not afraid of the Air Force with their ability to bomb me to the stone age before I knew they were there. I am not afraid of the Navy even though they have nuclear weapons in submarines. I am not afraid of tools, I am afraid of actions, which is why I continue to support YOUR rights to own firearms despite seeing the results in terms of crime and accidental injury that OTHER gun owners do on a daily basis, including murder cops and civilians.

You went on a tirade as though those of us opposed to MRAPs were partially to blame for Renn's death.

Yet your fellow officers have stated they rarely use or even try to use the armor they do have available. Yet you politicized the death of a fellow officer to attack us. I had a lot of respect for you. Had.

 

[Expat]

If all the police would just hide in their basement when trouble strikes, none of this would happen.

 

[phylodog]

How would advocating police brutality be used against you?

A better question is why would something that you typed be used against me?

 

[churchmouse]

Can you provide specifics for what this means? None of your following suggestions have anything to do with how the police 'communicate' with thugs.



These are not unreasonable at all, but we do need to strike a balance. Keeping the criminal element in check is certainly important, I agree with you on that. But it is equally important, if not more so, to keep government tyranny in check. Why not do both?



Well, it's the only tangible example that we've been given. Maybe if you guys would be blunt and speak your mind we could cut through the B.S.



For violent crimes, absolutely.



You're right, to a limited extent. Some of these criminals fit this description. Some don't. Some of them just made a mistake. Some of the people being roughed up aren't criminals at all.

Lock away the violent criminals. Cursing at them and roughing them up accomplishes nothing. You think it teaches them a lesson or something? This guy was probably cursed at and roughed up more than once in his life by the police, and he probably earned it. His dad certainly received his share. Did the son learn his lesson? Did it get his attention? Is this the outcome you're looking for?

We have a bill of rights for a reason. We abide by due process for a reason. We consider folks innocent until proven guilty for a reason.

This is all very clear to me. This POS is obviously guilty.

Not saying to rough people up for sport. Just be allowed to use reasonable force to detain.

Question, have you in your life ever put your life at risk in high speed pursuit or foot chase running down a known murderer. Has you adrenaline ever spiked in a situation such as this. If and when you catch this known repeat offender would you in your heightened chemical state have the self control to be courteous and kind. I seriously doubt that you would. I know from personal experience that once the body goes full pursuit it is very hard to bring everything back to normal.
In the same vane, these dirt bags put themselves into these situations knowing full well what the consequences can be if caught. They put entire areas in danger with their idiotic and non-trained high speed driving that most always end up with the vehicle against a pole or some innocent hard working fellas car. Or they blast through a light and take out a family. Usually in a stolen car. They run/hide/break into homes/take hostages, steal another car sometimes at gun point.Bad all the way around and they expect to be treated kindly. Hell no. They get what the hell they get to apprehend them. Put the situation to a close. Hit the idiots with the damn car....I really am beyond caring.
We have had more than a few man hunts around here. I know how it works.

As to the ones "Just making a mistake"....well, they know right from wrong as well. If you pick up a weapon and rob some one that is not a mistake that is a choice. Same with stealing my car or coming into my home to relieve me of my valuables. those are not mistakes, they are choices.

Of course there is a time to be polite. Not every perp deserves rough treatment.
We are all just human beings. Every one of us. We ask so much of LEO's and this is something that is hard to do.

 

[actaeon277]

Debate is getting a little heated.
Maybe a breather for everyone?

 

[SERparacord]

Treat gang tats they same way you would a dog foaming at the mouth.

 

[churchmouse]

How would advocating police brutality be used against you?

Not seeing anything about brutality in Phylo's posts.

Trolling for responses??????

I advocated an occasional tune up. It worked in my neighborhood when I was young. Saw a few fellas test old Joe the beat cop. They all had there a$$es handed back to them after a tune up. Most never went there again.

 

[Expat]

I advocated an occasional tune up. It worked in my neighborhood when I was young. Saw a few fellas test old Joe the beat cop. They all had there a$$es handed back to them after a tune up. Most never went there again.

That used to be an accepted activity in the old days.

 

[phylodog]

That used to be an accepted activity in the old days.

Did we have more than 100 murders a year back then?