40 S&W Rifles

[retirednco]

I've been looking to purchase a semi-auto rifle chambered in .40 Smith & Wesson. This will be a home defense weapon for both me and my wife to easily use. She is small and already has a .38 pistol whereas I have a Glock 23 (.40 S&W) and a Winchester SPX Defender 12 gauge shotgun. I really liked the Rock River Arms: LAR-458 .458 SOCOM but they are $3.00 a bullet. So, the two that really have my attention are the Bretta CX4 Storm and the Rock River Arms LAR-40. The Beretta has style but RRA is an AR platform with many more possibilities.
Has anyone actually fired either one? What are your honest opinions about these two rifles?

Rock River Arms: LAR-40 CAR A4

Cx4 Storm

 

[bloodandgutsmurphy]

First of all welcome to Ingo. Whats wrong with using the Winchester for home defense?

 

[VERT]

Can't help you with the reviews of either rifle. I have been handling a CX4 in 9mm at the local shop and I like it. It makes sense to me to have a carbine chambered in pistol caliber cartridge. That said the 40S&W out of a carbine will have possible more risk of over-penetration compared to the .223 out of an AR.

 

[sb0]

I am choosing 40 S&W over say .223 because I live in a residential neighborhood and I'm concerned about over-penetration.

You have that backwards.

The 40 S&W is going to have more risk of overpenetration than the .223.

 

[45fan]

Kel-Tec makes one that should take the mags from your G23. Might be worth a look for commonality between mags...

 

[VERT]

Kel-Tec makes one that should take the mags from your G23. Might be worth a look for commonality between mags...

Yes they do! Actually Glock 22 full size mags, which will also fit the G23. I have shot the KelTec in 40S&W. I thought it was uncomfortable to shoot from a recoil standpoint and accuracy was ehhh. I would rather have a Glock 35 for similar money.

 

[1775usmarine]

When I saw the title I though you wanted to buy forty rifles made by S&W. I thought you were trying to start a small army.

 

[Spyco]

I'd recommend a Sub2000. I've had one in 40. It's nice and light, but that also makes it kick a little harder than what you would expect. Compared to other carbines, it's a good cheap rifle if you can get it for under $450.

 

[retirednco]

The .223 has a muzzle velocity of around 3,200-4000 fps and muzzle energy of around 1200-1400 ft/lbs whereas the .40 S&W has a muzzle velocity of around 1000-1180 fps and muzzle energy of around 400-500 ft/lbs. You can find ammo a little out of this scale but you get my point. .40 S&W has no way near the power of the .223.

3,200-4000 fps vs. 1000-1180 fps
1200-1400 ft/lbs vs. 400-500 ft/lbs

 

[sb0]

The .223 has a muzzle velocity of around 3,200-4000 fps and muzzle energy of around 1200-1400 ft/lbs whereas the .40 S&W has a muzzle velocity of around 1000-1180 fps and muzzle energy of around 400-500 ft/lbs. You can find ammo a little out of this scale but you get my point. .40 S&W has no way near the power of the .223.

3,200-4000 fps vs. 1000-1180 fps
1200-1400 ft/lbs vs. 400-500 ft/lbs

Power and overpenetration are two different things.

This fact is well documented. As a general rule, .223 will have less overpenetration than 9, 40 or 45.

A light high velocity projectile will fragment long before a slower heavier one.

 

[retirednco]

Thank you! You guys have me rethinking the goal and purpose of the new rifle. I think I need to get my wife a Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 for her home protection needs. She needs a weapon to have many rounds and very light recoil. Then later I can get the AR that I really want. Thanks again for your input. I learned something here.

 

[VERT]

Thank you! You guys have me rethinking the goal and purpose of the new rifle. I think I need to get my wife a Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 for her home protection needs. She needs a weapon to have many rounds and very light recoil. Then later I can get the AR that I really want. Thanks again for your input. I learned something here.

My AR in 223 has a lot less recoil then the 40 cal KelTec that I shot. Other then noise an AR is very mild.

 

[oldpink]

Thank you! You guys have me rethinking the goal and purpose of the new rifle. I think I need to get my wife a Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 for her home protection needs. She needs a weapon to have many rounds and very light recoil. Then later I can get the AR that I really want. Thanks again for your input. I learned something here.

That's why we're here.
If you should opt for the .223/5.56mm for defense purposes, I strongly advise a varmint bullet.
Those will have the most terminal performance, least likely to overpenetrate, and the most likely to fragment if they hit drywall or any other building structure.

 

[snowwalker]

I use a Mech-Tech on a Glock G21 frame and it comes in a lot of Glock flavors (G17, G22, etc.) and has almost no recoil, plus it is much more quiet than a 12 gauge. You also don't need an FLL to buy one as it is not considered a firearm so it can be shipped to your door.

 

[SSE]

Are we talking green tip steel core or HP or soft-point in 223 and FMJ or HP in .40 ?
The .22 rifle as a trainer for an AR later is a good idea but will your wife ever get used to the .223 muzzle blast.
You might want to check out the Ruger PC-40 or PC-4 carbine, very nice. They do not make them anymore so you would have to find a used one.

 

[dvd1955]

That's why we're here.
If you should opt for the .223/5.56mm for defense purposes, I strongly advise a varmint bullet.
Those will have the most terminal performance, least likely to overpenetrate, and the most likely to fragment if they hit drywall or any other building structure.

Not an AR guy so know nothing about the ammo for it. Thought my daughter and her husband were going to buy a shotgun for home defense, but bought an AR instead, so I am wondering about this 'varmint' bullet. Can you recommend a specific brand and model, so I can pass this along to them? Thanks.

 

[Michigan Slim]

I use Hornady V Max quite a bit. Great bullet, with a polymer tip. Feeds in my Colt just perfect and my boy's S&W M&P too. I reload for it so I can shoot a lot of them. Just made 2000 this winter for something to do....

 

[gunbunnies]

Soft points and hollow points in 223/5.56 deliver all their energy into the target upon impact. They basically disintegrate into the target. Full metal jacket or penetration bullet designs penetrate better on target and can go through your target depending on thickness and weight of the target. General rule in bullet designs is varmint ammo is going to explode, all others will go zipping on through...

I have the Beretta storm in 9mm and it is a well made firearm that takes a beating and keeps on shooting. I got it because it used the same magazines as my pistols which were Beretta 92FS's. When shooting some old hard drives I noticed my reloads would start to open up the hard drive cases on impact when shot with the pistol, but with the same ammo out of the carbine it would open them up like a can opener and dispense pieces around the target area. 223 full metal explodes them quite nicely...

 

[nighthawk80]

There is also the Just Right carbine. It takes glock mags.

 

[NKBJ]

My daddy loved deer hunting with his 1873 Winchester 38-40. Gave him complete pass through.
The .40 oughta make a nice multi-purpose carbine, self defense as well as meeting the deer hunting regs.