IU student murdered, suspect in custody

[CathyInBlue]

In this case, her refusal to submit was likely the difference between being killed, and being raped and then killed.

Which would you rather be?

It may also have been the difference between being the next Spierer and her murderer being caught, tried, convicted, and executed.

 

[T.Lex]

In this case, her refusal to submit was likely the difference between being killed, and being raped and then killed.

With all due respect, in my (admittedly limited) experience with the criminal justice system, the VAST majority of rapists (even violent rapists who target strangers, which is a small subset) are not murderers.

Yes, like serial murderers are a small percentage of murderers, serial rapist-murderers do exist. Certainly, if they tie this guy to the Spierer case, then this young lady was likely doomed from the start.

But, based only on the information currently available, my opinion is that this guy was interested in rape - not rape and murder.

Which would you rather be?

I have daughters. In the starkest terms, if they had a choice between rape-survivor or murder-victim, I would prefer the former. Perhaps that's selfish of me. As their dad, as heartbroken and angry and vengeful as I would be if they were raped, it would be far worse for me if I could never see them again.

Please do not take this as judgment of those who would prefer not to survive something so terrible. I do understand that. I would not cast aspersions on that attitude.

I just think that the corollary - judging a woman for submission rather than martyrdom - is also wrong.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Indiana Daily Student supposedly reporting that evidence at the crime scene ties the suspect to the crime scene. I have not seen this article. This was stated in the comments section of the article in the herald times.

Just went to idsnews.com to find a better source. All I found was this tweet by https://twitter.com/mjmajchrowicz:

Brown Co. coroner: evidence found at crime scene links Daniel Messel to #HannahWilson. Reporting with @suzannepaige6 for @idsnews

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

I wish Hannah had been armed. It may not have saved her life, but at least she'd had a chance. Without being armed she had no chance. Her self defense bruises are self-evident she was conscious and resisted. Too bad her resistance did not include a big BANG.

I feel for her family. Can't imagine losing a child to a predator like that. Just can't imagine that kind of pain and suffering. So very sad.

 

[poppy]

Yes, I went to the IDS after I posted and saw the source, as it appeared in the IDS, as the Brown County Corner.

 

[Fargo]

With all due respect, in my (admittedly limited) experience with the criminal justice system, the VAST majority of rapists (even violent rapists who target strangers, which is a small subset) are not murderers.

Yes, like serial murderers are a small percentage of murderers, serial rapist-murderers do exist. Certainly, if they tie this guy to the Spierer case, then this young lady was likely doomed from the start.

But, based only on the information currently available, my opinion is that this guy was interested in rape - not rape and murder.

If we are talking about rape as a broad category yes. If we are talking about abduction style stranger rape where the victim is taken in to the suspects vehicle and custody, I would have to very strongly disagree.

I am hard pressed to think to any abduction style rape in recent memory which did not result in either the victim's death or an attempt to kill the victim.

 

[T.Lex]

If we are talking about rape as a broad category yes. If we are talking about abduction style stranger rape where the victim is taken in to the suspects vehicle and custody, I would have to very strongly disagree.

I am hard pressed to think to any abduction style rape in recent memory which did not result in either the victim's death or an attempt to kill the victim.

Oh - I can totally see how such an opinion would be formed based on MSM reporting. When I was in the criminal law game, though, I would say there were more examples of stranger-abduction-rape not being killed than killed. It was certainly violent, but it wasn't serial-rapist-murderer type stuff.

I would (as usual) be open to correction. I'm not sure if the FBI crime stats report that sort of thing.

Edit:
Also, there may be a reporting issue in another way: I'm not sure we can determine how many instances there are of die-before-submission. Those would typically just be murder, or murder and abuse of corpse.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I just think that the corollary - judging a woman for submission rather than martyrdom - is also wrong.

You're right, that would be wrong.

But I don't think a woman who would fight an attacker is doing so because she made a decision to die rather than to submit. If she fights, it's more probably pure instinct.

 

[T.Lex]

New info:
Cell phone led police to IU student's murder suspect - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Police also found a black cell phone in a red case near the feet of the body, later determined to belong to Messel. Messel has been arrested in Wilson's murder.

 

[longbow]

New info:
Cell phone led police to IU student's murder suspect - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

I am not shocked a criminal would leave a cell phone behind. I bet they called him and said can we bring it over and arrested him.....

 

[PistolBob]

Kilroy's mentioned again...Was she even 21 years old?

 

[T.Lex]

That cell phone was a huge break in the case.

ETA:
Also, some solid police work.

Wilson was at a party at a room in the Hilton Garden Inn in on the night of April 23, 2015, according to court documents. At some point her friends decided to go to Kilroy's Sports Bar, but determined that Wilson was too intoxicated to continue staying out with them. They talked about calling an Uber when a taxi pulled up. Wilson got into the taxi alone and witnesses heard her provide her address. That was the last time anyone saw Wilson alive.

The cell phone led police to Messel. Investigators determined that Messel had not turned up at work Friday, which was unusual for him. He worked at Fine Print Printing in Bloomington. Police spoke to Messel's father, who told them he went to dinner with Messel Thursday night around 6:00 pm. According to Messel's father, his son went out to Yogi's Bar and Grill for trivia night with friends at 8:00 pm, something he does every Thursday night. His father told police that Messel did not return hom from Yogi's Thursday night, which was unusual, as he typically would return home by midnight. A colleague confirmed that Daniel Messel had given him a ride home around 11:00 pm Thursday.

After learning of the missing persons report on Hannah Wilson, police retraced her steps Thursday night. Then they got a call from a neighbor that Daniel Messel had returned home.

When police arrived, Messel was carrying a plastic garbage bag full of clothing out of his home. Police collected it as evidence. They noticed that Messel had claw marks on his forearms. Police arrested Messel on the spot and transported him to the Bloomington State Police post.

Investigators say they found blood spatter on the driver's side of Messel's Kia Sportage, and blood as well as a clump of long black hair on the console.

The PCA states that the friends watched her get in a cab - not the Kia Sportage. So, the big question is how she ended up in the car.

By the way - apropos of nothing, really - I believe Lauren Spierer went missing in the early morning hours of a Friday, after partying Thursday night.

Most likely a total coincidence about the Thursday night trivia night thing.

 

[bwframe]

Sounds like she was drinking with "friends" who determined she was too drunk to go to Kilroys with them. They put her in a taxi alone.

Cell phone led police to IU student's murder suspect - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Wilson was at a party at a room in the Hilton Garden Inn in on the night of April 23, 2015, according to court documents. At some point her friends decided to go to Kilroy's Sports Bar, but determined that Wilson was too intoxicated to continue staying out with them. They talked about calling an Uber when a taxi pulled up. Wilson got into the taxi alone and witnesses heard her provide her address. That was the last time anyone saw Wilson alive.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, a couple other interesting points from the PCA:
- Dude had called the police from that cell number in 2012. Wonder what that was about.
- They redacted the name of someone that was "very" recently in the recent call list. Hope that isn't the cabbie.
- There was clearly a significant struggle, including claw marks on the dude's arms and other physical evidence of a struggle in the car.
- Dude didn't give any statements, didn't sign the Advice of Rights Form, and apparently did not demand to know whether he was being detained.

ETA:
For those of you playing along at home, a kidnapping resulting in murder is a death-eligible offense. That is, if the Brown County Prosecutor wants to, he can probably seek the death penalty.

I do not know the current elected Prosecutor. I worked with his predecessor, Jim Oliver.

ETA2:
Depending on the grade of the ground she was on, pooling of blood under her head might mean that she was actually alive when he left her.

 

[Alamo]

I would not like to be one of the friends who thought she was too drunk to go to a bar but sent her off alone in a cab. Yes she was officially a big girl and officially responsible for her own actions, including drinking, but still... wow, I would not like to have their consciences today.

 

[PistolBob]

TV news reporting that Messel has now been formally charged with Murder. What about kidnapping?

 

[T.Lex]

If they don't know how/why she got in the car with him, they do not know if that part was consensual or not.

Yes, common sense dictates a certain conclusion, but they will have to prove it.

 

[printcraft]

Never submit. Always fight back.

Also, never go to location B.....
if they are going to kill you anyway make them do it right there....
they don't have a plan for location A.

 

[CindyE]

I would not like to be one of the friends who thought she was too drunk to go to a bar but sent her off alone in a cab. Yes she was officially a big girl and officially responsible for her own actions, including drinking, but still... wow, I would not like to have their consciences today.

Unfortunately, drinking seems to have led to bad decisions for everyone. I cannot say that this could never have happened to me or my friends back in the early 80s, when we were partying fools. I was usually not alone when I went out, but there was one time when a boyfriend I thought I could trust turned out to be a creep. There was one friend who stumbled off into the woods during a party to pee, and passed out, alone. Another time, I found her passed out in her car in the early morning, when I was going to work. Things could have ended very badly. Parents need to talk with their daughters about SA. I know I did, with mine.

 

[T.Lex]

Parents need to talk with their daughters about SA. I know I did, with mine.

In the name of Equality, it is also important to talk to sons.

Just leaving this here:
Footprints At The River's Edge: Who is Edward Lanphear?

(That happened in the home town of a friend of mine.)