Deputy Handcuffs 8-Year Old And Watches Him Cry

[Dead Duck]

I had a school teacher that would use a yard stick. That ***** was a master at it and not breaking it! Man, that stung...she'd hit you right on the calf muscles.

That's so you can't outrun her.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That's so you can't outrun her.

No. She was just a *****.

 

[Cola76]

There is a lot of confusion surrounding this whole situation. First, ADD/ADHD are not behavior disorders, they are cognitive/learning disorders. I have had plenty of students with ADHD, and some were very difficult behaviorally and some were not. The difference was not the severity of their ADHD, but the expectations and discipline within their home. PTSD is a different story and I think it remains to be seen what role that plays in this scenario. Second, the school resource officer should only be brought into a situation as a last resort when dealing with classroom behavior. If this student's PTSD manifests itself in a way that makes the student disruptive and unruly then the special education and administrative staff should have procedures in place for dealing with the student. Either there is not appropriate procedures in place, the student's behavior went beyond the capabilities of the school staff, or the behavior was not identified as attributable to his ADHD/PTSD. In the first case the school is at fault and the officer cannot be faulted for dealing with the situation like an officer. When someone, of any age, is unruly officers are trained to restrain them. The officer used the tools he had(cuffs) in the only way they would be effective. If it is the either of the last cases, the officer is in the exact same position. If the parents are really going to stick with the child's ADHD/PTSD as the source of the issue or as a rational for handling their child differently, they need to be suing the school for passing their child on to the officer who is not trained like school staff ought to be. If their child was acting beyond the capabilities of well trained staff using best practice procedures, then they really do not have a case and need to find and educational environment that works for their child.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I agree.

There is a lot of confusion surrounding this whole situation. First, ADD/ADHD are not behavior disorders, they are cognitive/learning disorders. I have had plenty of students with ADHD, and some were very difficult behaviorally and some were not. The difference was not the severity of their ADHD, but the expectations and discipline within their home. PTSD is a different story and I think it remains to be seen what role that plays in this scenario. Second, the school resource officer should only be brought into a situation as a last resort when dealing with classroom behavior. If this student's PTSD manifests itself in a way that makes the student disruptive and unruly then the special education and administrative staff should have procedures in place for dealing with the student. Either there is not appropriate procedures in place, the student's behavior went beyond the capabilities of the school staff, or the behavior was not identified as attributable to his ADHD/PTSD. In the first case the school is at fault and the officer cannot be faulted for dealing with the situation like an officer. When someone, of any age, is unruly officers are trained to restrain them. The officer used the tools he had(cuffs) in the only way they would be effective. If it is the either of the last cases, the officer is in the exact same position. If the parents are really going to stick with the child's ADHD/PTSD as the source of the issue or as a rational for handling their child differently, they need to be suing the school for passing their child on to the officer who is not trained like school staff ought to be. If their child was acting beyond the capabilities of well trained staff using best practice procedures, then they really do not have a case and need to find and educational environment that works for their child.

 

[steveh_131]

There is a lot of confusion surrounding this whole situation. First, ADD/ADHD are not behavior disorders, they are cognitive/learning disorders. I have had plenty of students with ADHD, and some were very difficult behaviorally and some were not. The difference was not the severity of their ADHD, but the expectations and discipline within their home.

This is simply not true. The hyperactivity component of ADHD is very much a behavioral disorder. Some kids struggle more with the inattentiveness, and yes, that may be more cognitive.

 

[Cola76]

This is simply not true. The hyperactivity component of ADHD is very much a behavioral disorder. Some kids struggle more with the inattentiveness, and yes, that may be more cognitive.

It is true. Certainly, the cognitive difficulties can have an impact on behavior and need to be taken into consideration when managing behavior. However, the cognitive issues of ADD/ADHD have to do with how stimuli is processed and handled in the brain. That is why medication is often the go-to treatment. The typical drugs affect the brains ability to focus in on some stimuli while ignoring others. The hyperactivity component to ADHD certainly needs to be addressed, but a student's hyperactivity does not automatically mean they are ever disruptive, do not follow directions, and need to be removed from the classroom, let alone on a regular basis. Just like any other student, a student with ADHD can meet behavior expectations with the proper support. On the other hand, they are going to have difficulties with learning that have nothing to do with behavior.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If their child was acting beyond the capabilities of well trained staff using best practice procedures, then they really do not have a case and need to find and educational environment that works for their child.

After such nonsense as court rulings determining that illegal immigrant children have a 'right' to have their own personal translator if need be, how can we justify saying that a card-carrying, tax-paying citizen needs to find a different environment for his/her child whose needs are less intense than a personal interpreter? If the school is unwilling or unable to provide an education for this child, should the parents not receive a refund on the taxes they pay for the purpose? After all, any other alternative is going to cost them.

 

[Cola76]

After such nonsense as court rulings determining that illegal immigrant children have a 'right' to have their own personal translator if need be, how can we justify saying that a card-carrying, tax-paying citizen needs to find a different environment for his/her child whose needs are less intense than a personal interpreter? If the school is unwilling or unable to provide an education for this child, should the parents not receive a refund on the taxes they pay for the purpose? After all, any other alternative is going to cost them.

I'm all for school vouchers. I have no problem taking the money that is spent on the student and allowing it to follow him wherever he goes.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm all for school vouchers. I have no problem taking the money that is spent on the student and allowing it to follow him wherever he goes.

It works for me!

 

[steveh_131]

It is true. Certainly, the cognitive difficulties can have an impact on behavior and need to be taken into consideration when managing behavior. However, the cognitive issues of ADD/ADHD have to do with how stimuli is processed and handled in the brain. That is why medication is often the go-to treatment. The typical drugs affect the brains ability to focus in on some stimuli while ignoring others. The hyperactivity component to ADHD certainly needs to be addressed, but a student's hyperactivity does not automatically mean they are ever disruptive, do not follow directions, and need to be removed from the classroom, let alone on a regular basis. Just like any other student, a student with ADHD can meet behavior expectations with the proper support. On the other hand, they are going to have difficulties with learning that have nothing to do with behavior.

I guess I really don't know what point you're trying to make. You implied that ADHD doesn't cause kids to struggle behaviorally unless their parents suck. I don't agree, at all.

 

[Libertarian01]

I think a good way to look at, as with most things, is to think of the "problem child" issue on a bell curve.

At the one extreme you have perfect parents in all ways; caring, loving, great wisdom on when to be firm, nurturing, willing to push the child so they can stand on their own feet, etc. And their child is Damien Thorn (ie. the antichrist for those not olde enough to remember the movie.)

At the other extreme you have horrific parents who are high, drunk, violent, uneducated, with no social skills worthy of being passed on to their offspring. Yet for all of that their child can almost walk on water. The kid turns out perfect and has the wisdom of Solomon due to their front row seat of horror called home.

And the truth is that most parents and children fall far between those two (2) extremes.

My concern is that the bell curve has shift away from the parents who walk on water toward those who are little more than evil neanderthals willing to sell their child for drugs. The concept of firmness, discipline, order, rules, respect has diminished. We have created a fast food society and bred fast food kids who want what they want and they want it NOW. If mommy and/or daddy doesn't provide, tantrums will ensue. Tantrum not enough? Hit, spit, bite. Still doesn't get what they want? Escalate!!!

My other concern is that while the child head shrinkers (Dr. Spock included) have/had many noble and well intentioned ideas, they overlook the fact that children DO need the fear of negative reinforcement from time to time. In almost all cases physical punishment should be the last resort, but it shouldn't be removed from the toolbox except in special cases. I do believe there are some children who will never benefit from physical punishment and other tools must be used. That said, I believe they are outliers at the extreme end of the bell curve.

As an example watch the movie (a true story) Temple Grandin. She now has her doctorates in Animal Husbandry, speaks on animal behavior AND autism. Why does she speak on autism - because she IS autistic! She has done very well due to the massive amount of discipline and direction her mother gave her early on when her symptoms were showing. She is a shining example of what was probably extreme discipline on the part of her mother who never gave up on her excelling beyond what was ever imaginable for autistic children 30 years ago.

All of the problems facing children today are better understood, but I believe the premise of firm disciple has been confused with harsh control to the point of it being put way in the bottom of the toolbox, seldom used and by then it is too late.

Does ADHD exist as an actual medical/mental condition? I believe it does. However, I also understand it to be way over diagnosed. Do children with true ADHD need to be handled differently than "average" children? Probably. However, that again doesn't mean the tool of physical punishment needs to be removed from the toolbox. It does probably mean that the parents should seriously educate themselves and be open to a variety of thoughts and better understand exactly when that tool needs be used.

Regrettably that level of discipline and understanding on the parents part doesn't quite conform to the common fast food culture of simple answers that work now!

Regards,

Doug

 

[IndyDave1776]

I think a good way to look at, as with most things, is to think of the "problem child" issue on a bell curve.

Excellent post all the way around. It seems to me that at least part of the problem is that good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment. The liberal head-shrinking crowd seems to think that you can just tell a kid to have good judgment with a little explanation of what that is and bypass the learning process entirely.

 

[tbhausen]

This thread makes me glad YouTube hadn't been invented yet when I saw a teenager get handcuffed to a flagpole for two days.

 

[voidsherpa]

...I saw a teenager get handcuffed to a flagpole for two days.

But did they deserve it?

 

[Cola76]

I guess I really don't know what point you're trying to make. You implied that ADHD doesn't cause kids to struggle behaviorally unless their parents suck. I don't agree, at all.

My point is that hyper and distracted does not equate to defiant. A child with ADHD may need more correction and redirection because their mind is all over the place, but ADHD has nothing to do with whether a student decides to follow the directions of parents or teachers. It is reasonable to have the expectation that a child with ADHD will respond appropriately to correction, and then implement consequences if the child does not. On the other hand, the same expectation is not reasonable for a true behavior disorder like some conditions on the Autism spectrum or Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Children with these conditions need to be addressed from a completely different angle.

 

[kmoffett71]

I don't see how this was necessary. Take away privaledges or something, but torturing a kid is a bit much.

 

[jamil]

My point is that hyper and distracted does not equate to defiant. A child with ADHD may need more correction and redirection because their mind is all over the place, but ADHD has nothing to do with whether a student decides to follow the directions of parents or teachers. It is reasonable to have the expectation that a child with ADHD will respond appropriately to correction, and then implement consequences if the child does not. On the other hand, the same expectation is not reasonable for a true behavior disorder like some conditions on the Autism spectrum or Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Children with these conditions need to be addressed from a completely different angle.

That makes sense.

 

[kmoffett71]

Is it true the child was autistic too? This entire situation was just heartbreaking to me. My son is not ADHD, and thankfully behaved, but he would have been emotionally damaged from something like this. I am just heartbroken!

 

[steveh_131]

My point is that hyper and distracted does not equate to defiant.

Not all non-compliance is defiance.

A child with ADHD may need more correction and redirection because their mind is all over the place, but ADHD has nothing to do with whether a student decides to follow the directions of parents or teachers. It is reasonable to have the expectation that a child with ADHD will respond appropriately to correction, and then implement consequences if the child does not. On the other hand, the same expectation is not reasonable for a true behavior disorder like some conditions on the Autism spectrum or Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Children with these conditions need to be addressed from a completely different angle.

I think your understanding of ADHD may be missing an important component.

Source

Symptoms of ADHD fall into three groups:
Not being able to focus (inattentiveness)
Being extremely active (hyperactivity)
Not being able to control behavior (impulsivity)

The impulsivity symptom is what you are missing in your understanding of the disorder. Not all ADHD kids have it, but those that do will struggle with controlling their behavior.

It is important to distinguish this from defiance. This may be hard for folks to grasp if they have never experienced it, but I'll explain it as best I can.

Kids get impulses to do things. When they're babies, those impulses almost instantaneously transform into actions. No forethought, they just get the impulse to do something and then do it. As the child develops, he should learn to pause for even a fraction of a second before that action and think about it. Will this get me in trouble? Will I hurt myself? Will I hurt someone else? If the child thinks about it and then does it anyway, that is defiance. However, if the child's brain doesn't even give him that momentary pause to consider those questions before he acts, that is impulsivity.

They may be difficult to distinguish in the classroom sometimes, but there is a difference. For these kids, medications can sometimes help. It takes their brains out of overdrive and gives them that extra fraction of a second to make a better choice.

I hope this explanation makes sense.

 

[Cola76]

Not all non-compliance is defiance.

I think your understanding of ADHD may be missing an important component.

Source

The impulsivity symptom is what you are missing in your understanding of the disorder. Not all ADHD kids have it, but those that do will struggle with controlling their behavior.

It is important to distinguish this from defiance. This may be hard for folks to grasp if they have never experienced it, but I'll explain it as best I can.

Kids get impulses to do things. When they're babies, those impulses almost instantaneously transform into actions. No forethought, they just get the impulse to do something and then do it. As the child develops, he should learn to pause for even a fraction of a second before that action and think about it. Will this get me in trouble? Will I hurt myself? Will I hurt someone else? If the child thinks about it and then does it anyway, that is defiance. However, if the child's brain doesn't even give him that momentary pause to consider those questions before he acts, that is impulsivity.

They may be difficult to distinguish in the classroom sometimes, but there is a difference. For these kids, medications can sometimes help. It takes their brains out of overdrive and gives them that extra fraction of a second to make a better choice.

I hope this explanation makes sense.

I think you are overstating what impulsivity is. The following are the examples of impulsivity symptoms from the very same source you cited above: "Blurts out answers before questions have been completed."
"Has difficulty awaiting turn."
"Interrupts or intrudes on others (butts into conversations or games)."

All of these behaviors are minor and simply need correction, though impulsivity can be expressed in more serious ways like hitting or throwing things. None of them have anything to do with how a child responds to correction. Of course, the child will repeat the impulsive behavior and need correction or redirection consistently. That is the nature of ADHD. That is not defiance, and that is not what prompts a resource officer to be called to remove a child from the classroom.