Question about church carry

[Tactically Fat]

Is there a school at your church, OP?

Like something in the 'hood of a K-6 or K-12?

 

[TangoSierraEcho]

I am a deacon at a local church in Southern Indiana the deacons are allowed to carry concealed handgun's if they have a license my question is this if one of our deacons suspects that someone visiting our church is carrying a handgun do We have the right to ask to see their license and their concealed carry permit or does there have to be some type of probable cause any help you could give me on the matter would be greatly appreciated. I feel that we do not but some say we do Because it is private property

You currently have a policy allowing Deacon's to carry so clearly you understand the importance of carrying such that you developed an internal policy to allow it at the church for Deacons so it only makes sense that you create a policy for people entering your church. This is private property so you can decide what ever rules you want to put in place but you need to post those rules so that those entering your property understand that they could be asked if they have an LTCH or they could be asked to leave something like that. Its your property you can make the rules but you need to make those rules clear so you are not singling out people and remember just like you can make the rules people also have a choice not to answer intrusive questions and not to come to your church either.

 

[Dead Duck]

Before I enter church I always ask the higher up for permission.
God usually says, "Ya Dude, go for it!" So I go on in.

Give it a try. The worse he could say is No.

 

[thunderchicken]

The church I attend has recently began establishing an armed security team. We have established some policies and standard minimum training requirements. We have no problem with someone carrying in our church however it will put you on our radar especially if you are a guest and maybe acting nervous. As policy we may approach the individual and introduce ourselves as one of many church security personnel. After that if we feel the concern is great enough we will keep eyes on the individual and may contact LEO's for assistance.

 

[NHT3]

Who's to say the person or persons you are concerned about isn't better trained than the Deacons. This may come under the heading of "judge not lest ye be judged". Several people at my church carry as I do every Sunday. I did before it was sanctioned by the pastor and didn't discuss it with him until he asked me about training for him and his family. He now has had some training and has a pistol. He said he's not sure he ready to carry while he is speaking but always happy to see me in the back knowing I'm watching over things along with a few others. I haven't got offical notice from "highest up" but I'm sure in my heart that He approves.

Certified Glock & M&P armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]

 

[robbman]

Just sad that we even have to have the discussion. Hard to believe that our streets use to be relatively safe at one time.

 

[Verls65]

Concealed is concealed. Tell the possible carrier that he needs to step up his game a little bit.
My church doesnt have an official policy that I am aware of. I carry every Sunday, but it is truly concealed.

+1.....no one asks me what color of underwear I'm wearing....CAUSE ITS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS! I am mindful to not print, and to be discreet....there is nothing wrong with bieng vigilant, and protecting the flock, if you see someone suspicious, then either watch them, or engage them! It should be an enviroment that allows for men to speak to men and get to know them.... Start a relationship, maybe talk to him about shooting, or invite him to the range with other men! We have to remember that we (The Church) have to engage people out of love, to be able to disciple them let alone get to know them.
I wouldn't ask to see anyone's LTCH, but I would not be afraid to strike up a convo about guns or shooting or anything else for that matter.
Beyond that, you can always post a no weapons allowed sign...but then I'm pretty sure the Decons would be included in that also?

 

[thunderchicken]

Not to hijack the thread but just ad 1 example our church's security team understands that they could ask but they need to understand nobody has to share that info. Andvit is possible to strike up conversation and if it has raised concern it's a good opportunity to strike a conversation.

 

[thunderchicken]

And act accordingly which maybe do mothing or maybe contact law enforcement. we always want to make people feel welcome and safe.

 

[seagullplayer]

This is one situation where "don't ask don't tell" works pretty good...

 

[eldirector]

Just sad that we even have to have the discussion. Hard to believe that our streets use to be relatively safe at one time.

When was that? Violent crime is at the lowest rate since at least 1970. We are safer today than in my entire lifetime.

What I find sad is that a cc-er is assumed "up to something", even by others who CC, and even by their brothers and sisters in the church.

 

[nakinate]

I carry at church every week. If my pastor asked me not to carry, that's one thing. If my pastor carries and asks me not to carry then I would have serious problems with that.

 

[robbman]

The there is no need to CC in a church. You are safe. Disband the security teams! Lol

 

[HoughMade]

I am a deacon at a local church in Southern Indiana the deacons are allowed to carry concealed handgun's if they have a license my question is this if one of our deacons suspects that someone visiting our church is carrying a handgun do We have the right to ask to see their license and their concealed carry permit or does there have to be some type of probable cause any help you could give me on the matter would be greatly appreciated. I feel that we do not but some say we do Because it is private property

If you have been given the authority to enforce this policy, you certainly have the right to ask and to ask people to leave if they are violating the policy.

Whether you should have this policy or not, that's another matter.

 

[thunderchicken]

I can't speak fo the OP's church policies, but I would like to clarify as for the church I attend. If you want to cc you are welcome to do so and we DO NOT assume that anyone is "up to something" however, (espcially if you are a guest) does put you on the radar which I belive is part of living in condition yellow. If one of our team members feels it an appropriate response may politely introduce themselves and politely let them know their cc weapon has been noticed and they are welcome to keep it but to please keep it concealed.

 

[w_ADAM_d88]

Had a funny moment in church this morning... Our worship leader was introducing a new worship song to the congregation and said the he had a disclaimer about the song. There was a lyric in the song that says something about "laying down our guns" and he wanted everyone to know that that was is no way a political statement. He went on to say that it is just a metaphor used in the song and that the church supports our rights and he even made a comment about all of those out in the audience currently carrying.

 

[HoughMade]

Had a funny moment in church this morning... Our worship leader was introducing a new worship song to the congregation and said the he had a disclaimer about the song. There was a lyric in the song that says something about "laying down our guns" and he wanted everyone to know that that was is no way a political statement. He went on to say that it is just a metaphor used in the song and that the church supports our rights and he even made a comment about all of those out in the audience currently carrying.

I appreciate the disclaimer....but

[video=youtube;oOCxcOdxNog]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOCxcOdxNog[/video]

 

[IndyGunSafety]

As private property you have the right to ask anyone to leave for any reason, or no reason at all.

If your church wishes your parish to attend services unarmed it is your right to ask them to do so.

-It is your right to secure your premesis against unwanted visitors, armed or otherwise.
-It is your right to expel unwanted visitors.
-It is your right to arm your deacons.

Why does this armed parishioner frighten you?

It took 7 posts for somebody to give a helpful, factual, non-emotional response.

 

[ATM]

Not sure why you'd have a policy "allowing" certain people to carry unless there is some other policy prohibiting carry in general.

 

[chipbennett]

Why do people hate private property rights?

Why do so many people misunderstand private property rights?

Private property rights have nothing to do with the right to keep and bear arms. A private property owner, exercising private property rights, may allow or deny a *person* presence on said property; no more, no less. A private property owner may welcome or trespass a person. He may not, under the guise of private property rights, demand that a welcomed person act in any particular manner, nor may the private property owner violate the rights of a welcomed person.