Concealed carry training ???

[NHT3]

I hope this isn't a dupe. I tell people in my classes that my estimate is that less than 25% of LTCH holders have actually had any real concealed carry training or ANY training for that matter. What I mean by structured training is simply drawing from your holster and shooting at a piece of paper in a structured class. The 25% is a figure that is just my personal estimate but I have been involved in enough training and classes with Coach and BBIs to believe that's a realistic number. It's shocking to see how accuracy fades with the smallest bit of pressure, especially when the pressure is applied, not by the instructor but the students themselves. I'm sure some will disagree but I believe the lack of training that most that carry regularly have had is nothing short of dangerous. Believe me, you have no idea how much you don't know until you get some training. I suppose I should make this a poll but I'm not sure how Do you think my estimate is high or low and how do you convince someone carrying a handgun how essential training is to their own safety and survival?
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT]
Certified Glock & M&P armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]

 

[GNRPowdeR]

Training in how to operate their firearm? I'd say your number is low, but not by much.

Training from a holster? I'd say your number is very generous.

 

[cedartop]

It depends. In MI you are required to take a class to exercise your right. For training beyond that, your number is astronomically high. The figure would be less than 5% by our estimate.

 

[VERT]

Training in how to operate their firearm? I'd say your number is low, but not by much.

Training from a holster? I'd say your number is very generous.

I disagree. I would say his numbers are generous in either case. In Indiana I would believe Cedertops numbers of less then 5% of LTCH holders have had any formal training. Even less if talking about working out of a holster.

 

[Huntinfool]

I have to go with Ceder on this one, I agree with somewhere around 5% 10 at tops

As for just how you go about convencing others that they new training. That is the million dollar question. I don't seem to be able to convence anyone. Heck I have been asked by lots of folks that say " I would like to take a class". I give then lots of names and dates of different training courses, and even offer to attend with them. Or my wife will offer to go with her friends. Do you think any of those folks ever try to attend. NOPE! I even tried to give away a free Appleseed ticket once, All I got was excueses.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I have to go with Ceder on this one, I agree with somewhere around 5% 10 at tops

As for just how you go about convencing others that they new training. That is the million dollar question. I don't seem to be able to convence anyone. Heck I have been asked by lots of folks that say " I would like to take a class". I give then lots of names and dates of different training courses, and even offer to attend with them. Or my wife will offer to go with her friends. Do you think any of those folks ever try to attend. NOPE! I even tried to give away a free Appleseed ticket once, All I got was excueses.

Its all about priorities. They need to feel it is more important than the myriad of things going on in their lives. I too have seen this.

"Hey, there is an AWESOME class being put on by Coach and BBI. Its AMAZEBALLS and you cant miss it."
"Oh, WOW! That DOES sound cool. But unfortunately that is the second saturday of the month, and thats when I sort my sock drawer. Sorry."
"You cant sort your socks on the first SUNDAY this ONE month?"
"Nope, sorry, my life's status quo is super duper important. I dont have anything going on on the 3rd thursday between 5 and 7. Can they squeeze that all day class in there for me because I am a special snowflake? And can they do it within a 15 minute drive of my house or office? I dont really like driving super far for stuff. Oh, hey, did you hear? DMB is touring again this year and they are coming SUPER close! COLUMBUS, OH man! I am SOOOO stoked! I got tickets dude! Its gonna be AWESOME!!!!"

Me:

 

[Huntinfool]

You are correct, that is the society we live in today.

 

[VERT]

Don't pass judgement to harshly on your friends CM. I have to pass on training all the time because of my schedule. I still haven't retaken my first aid and CPR

 

[Shay]

Training is often not a priority for most gun owners. Buying their next gun is more important. I'd agree with the 5% figure.

Training takes time and effort that gun buying does not. Training is also a huge ego check. It's easier to believe that you'll do great in a defense situation than to actually be shown that you don't really shoot well and you certainly can't fight.

 

[NHT3]

Training is often not a priority for most gun owners. Buying their next gun is more important. I'd agree with the 5% figure.

Training takes time and effort that gun buying does not. Training is also a huge ego check. It's easier to believe that you'll do great in a defense situation than to actually be shown that you don't really shoot well and you certainly can't fight.

Sorry to get back to this thread so late! I hadn't considered the ego check part of this but it's probably the most important and most likely to keep people away. I've encouraged a couple of friends that carry daily to get involved in training and I know at least one of them is avoiding it because he's afraid he will "look bad". I think I've heard Coach say that the only crime in "sucking" is not being willing to admit it. If you acknowledge it you should feel obligated to improve on it but if you never take a class you don't have to acknowledge it. In my mind I'm almost a Navy Seal or I've been shooting 40 years, how could I possibly be far from perfection? It seems that's the attitude I encounter with most when training is discussed OR the dreaded "I might look bad". Better to look bad in training than when it really counts.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member [/FONT]NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]
Glock certified armorer- M&P Certified armorer
[FONT=&amp]“[/FONT]Safety is not something that you hold in your hands, it happens between your ears” Col. Jeff Cooper

 

[Coach]

There is a certain amount of fear and ego creating a problem. People don't train, compete or speak in public because they are afraid of looking bad. It is easier to make excuses than to gear up and show up.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

From talking to people after shootings, "I didn't think it would happen to me" is a common phrase I hear.

A lot of people carry but don't REALLY believe they'll ever need it. Its a Teddy bear to comfort them...but the monsters are only imaginary. Then they aren't.

Pre-shooting, you get the "I'll just...." statements. The imaginary gunfight goes great in their head. Then the real gunfight isn't the one they imagined. They don't know what they don't know and don't see the value in training since the gunfight in their head always goes so well.

 

[GIJEW]

Aside from the ego check thing, I wonder how much is just a lack of commitment? Kind of like going to the dojo and the initial advancement is quick. Sticking around and working to earn a black belt is more than they want to do.

 

[Shay]

Aside from the ego check thing, I wonder how much is just a lack of commitment? Kind of like going to the dojo and the initial advancement is quick. Sticking around and working to earn a black belt is more than they want to do.

I understand what you are saying, but most gun owners wouldn't be considered yellow belts. Most will never take their first class.

 

[bb37]

People don't train, compete or speak in public because they are afraid of looking bad.

I used to feel uncomfortable with public speaking. I remember as a young test technician being asked to make a presentation to a group of engineers and managers about the results of a test I had been running for them. I was very concerned about looking bad in front of these older and more experienced men. I studied the material I planned to present and got to know it forwards and backwards. But, once I got going with my presentation, I just rolled along with the points I wanted to make and the audience seemed to understand what I was saying. When we got to Q&A time, I was really worried about being asked a question I hadn't prepared for, but there was only one easy question. In the end, I had over-prepared a bit, but the presentation was a success.

The key to public speaking is being very knowledgeable about your subject. I suspect that it's the same with concealed carry and gaining that knowledge takes training, training, and more training. I'm a SME on a number of topics, but not shooting in general and not CC in particular. So, I'm evaluating training options and making plans. I know there's a possibility that I might look bad because I've only recently gotten interested in shooting and CC. I'm sure there will be students in the room who are more comfortable with their guns than me. So be it. I'm not taking the course for their benefit, but for mine. I will have paid my money and I will be there to learn.

 

[MontereyC6]

I work with a guy that picked up an AR, just cause. Twice I've heard him say say that if anyone comes in his house, his AR is coming out. 3 things, 1) he's never fired a round through it. 2) it has no rear site or optic, 3) he doesn't need training, seems easy to use. I try to talk to him about training, but I'm afraid it's a lost cause.

 

[KokomoDave]

I have posted this before but before my son was allowed to CCW, he had to attend formal training. I decided it was good for me since I just had major shoulder surgery so I tagged along to just be out shot by my son. Proud papa moment right there!

 

[NHT3]

From talking to people after shootings, "I didn't think it would happen to me" is a common phrase I hear.

A lot of people carry but don't REALLY believe they'll ever need it. Its a Teddy bear to comfort them...but the monsters are only imaginary. Then they aren't.

Pre-shooting, you get the "I'll just...." statements. The imaginary gunfight goes great in their head. Then the real gunfight isn't the one they imagined. They don't know what they don't know and don't see the value in training since the gunfight in their head always goes so well.

At the risk of sounding stupid BBI your statement is what I would consider prophetic. Do you mind if I print it out and hand it out in my classes?
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Certified Glock armorer- Certified M&P armorer[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]

 

[gregr]

It depends. In MI you are required to take a class to exercise your right. For training beyond that, your number is astronomically high. The figure would be less than 5% by our estimate.

This BURNS me! I do agree, that a citizen ought to get training if they can afford it, and as much training, and as often as they can. But it is unconstitutional for government to mandate training or testing, because at that point, that right becomes just another privilege granted by the state.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I know there's a possibility that I might look bad because I've only recently gotten interested in shooting and CC. I'm sure there will be students in the room who are more comfortable with their guns than me. So be it. I'm not taking the course for their benefit, but for mine. I will have paid my money and I will be there to learn.

Lack of skill and experience won't make you look bad. Safety violations, acting like a d-bag, those sorts of things make you look bad. Well, with the exception of signing up for a class with pre-reqs and then not meeting them. If the class says "must be able to xxx" and you can't, you're wasting your time, the instructor's time, and taking time away from the students who are there to learn the level the class is aimed at. I took an open enrollment course for snubbie revolvers awhile back and one student started the day unable to hit a torso at 3y. No one made fun of her for it, it was a class that was ok for that skill level, and by the end of the day she hit a steel torso at 75y. You're there to learn. Don't worry about "winning" the class.

At the risk of sounding stupid BBI your statement is what I would consider prophetic. Do you mind if I print it out and hand it out in my classes?
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]Certified Glock armorer- CertifiedM&P armorer[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]

No, no problem. You can pay me in brass.