Explosions at Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, England. Fatalities confirmed

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites might have something to say about that.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges, Jamil. Different times, different covenants, different judgements. No where did Christ give leeway for us to do anything but live our neighbors as much as we love ourselves. In a much earlier time, destruction of the inhabitants of the promised land was a result of God's judgement of those peoples' long standing sins despite God's warnings.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites might have something to say about that.

Agree. Fortunately, the New Testament is not the bloodbath the Old Testament is. Jesus was a significant turn in theory. People looking to the bible for justification for violence will find it, same as they would find their justification in a bowl of alphabet soup if they looked long and hard enough.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I don't think scholars of Islam study the meaning of the Quoran based on English translations or interpretations.

Same thing can be said for the Bible.Some English translations are very different than others and largely edited.

Sylvain, is "The King James Bible" a well known thing in France? Several people in the USA believe that version to be the literal word of God. I am not raising this question to poke controversy, but out of curiosity. It is a fairly big deal in Christian circles over here, but how is such a specifically English thing viewed by the French?

 

[jamil]

I think you're comparing apples to oranges, Jamil. Different times, different covenants, different judgements. No where did Christ give leeway for us to do anything but live our neighbors as much as we love ourselves. In a much earlier time, destruction of the inhabitants of the promised land was a result of God's judgement of those peoples' long standing sins despite God's warnings.

I understand that. It was the same God of both covenants who demanded the destruction of certain races, and for much the same reasons Muslims are commanded to kill infidels.

 

[hog slayer]

Those would have existed prior to anyone calling themselves a Christian. But, this isn't about who's got a better god. Its about finding a way to decrease terrorist and specifically suicide bombings. Can you tell me why the majority (over 30,000 terrorist attacks claimed for Allah since 9/11) are from one religious group? How, then, does that justify your continuous effort to compare to Christianity?

 

[jamil]

Agree. Fortunately, the New Testament is not the bloodbath the Old Testament is. Jesus was a significant turn in theory. People looking to the bible for justification for violence will find it, same as they would find their justification in a bowl of alphabet soup if they looked long and hard enough.

True. And as Route 45 said, Christians aren't the problem. They tend to be a little judgemental. They tend to like laws that enforce their religious beliefs about social issues. But that's it. They are a benefit to society overall. Liberals should take note. Yes, they're anti-gay. But they aren't hurling gays off of rooftops. They aren't cutting heads off. Hell, they don't even burn people at the stake anymore.

 

[hog slayer]

I understand that. It was the same God of both covenants who demanded the destruction of certain races, and for much the same reasons Muslims are commanded to kill infidels.

For what reasons are Muslims commanded to kill infidels?
For what reasons did the God of the bible command to kill?
Don't just say it was the same. Prove it. Pick your bible version. Grab a Quran and let's get some verses out here of you cannot help yourself but to make this about equality of religion.

 

[BugI02]

There are texts for Christianity also, how many Christians follow everything in them? Do you consider Christians that dont believe exactly as you do to be heretics?
...

Have you visited the CRD: all things christianity thread lately

 

[jamil]

Those would have existed prior to anyone calling themselves a Christian. But, this isn't about who's got a better god. Its about finding a way to decrease terrorist and specifically suicide bombings. Can you tell me why the majority (over 30,000 terrorist attacks claimed for Allah since 9/11) are from one religious group? How, then, does that justify your continuous effort to compare to Christianity?

The purpose for comparing Christianity was to answer a point which compared Christianity. Also, I didn't say this was about who's god is better. I wanted to avoid that because these kinds of discussions usually become a comparison. It turns into silly comparisons like, "at least my god..." I'm just not interested in that.

About why Muslims kill people. I get the sense that you think I'm saying more than I'm saying. I'm saying not all Muslims believe as the radicals do. I'm not saying that Muslims don't have a problem. Not many religions have a path to salvation by killing infidels. Of course "real" Muslims would say no real Muslim would believe that. But radical Muslims have an easier time because the texts actually say that. It's like I said earlier, it's terrorists use people's inability to overcome their sins as a weapon, giving sinners a path to paradise by killing the enemies of Islam. It's like weaponized sinners.

 

[IndyDave1776]

why jolly, where do you get your information? please provide a reference

It is somewhat tedious, but when you count the years between events recorded in the Old Testament plus approximately 2,000 years this side of Christ, you will come up with approximately 6,000 years

Sylvain, is "The King James Bible" a well known thing in France? Several people in the USA believe that version to be the literal word of God. I am not raising this question to poke controversy, but out of curiosity. It is a fairly big deal in Christian circles over here, but how is such a specifically English thing viewed by the French?

Since we have now opened the translation can of worms, there are two basic issues at hand, which are the quality of the English translation and the quality of the Greek New Testament behind it. The Greek in vogue with the scholarly types is deficient in my reckoning contrasted with the Textus Receptus upon which the King James rests and the Majority Text which stands behind the New King James because the scholars have become enamored with the notion of using the oldest manuscripts as more authoritative, forgetting that often those were preserved from disuse while the more respected manuscripts were worn out and periodically recopied. It comes down to being a parallel of carbon dating papers I wrote in college and a brand new copy of Shakespeare and making the argument that by virtue of being an older piece of paper, it is proven that I predate Shakespeare.

 

[hog slayer]

The purpose for comparing Christianity was to answer a point which compared Christianity. Also, I didn't say this was about who's god is better. I wanted to avoid that because these kinds of discussions usually become a comparison. It turns into silly comparisons like, "at least my god..." I'm just not interested in that.

About why Muslims kill people. I get the sense that you think I'm saying more than I'm saying. I'm saying not all Muslims believe as the radicals do. I'm not saying that Muslims don't have a problem. Not many religions have a path to salvation by killing infidels. Of course "real" Muslims would say no real Muslim would believe that. But radical Muslims have an easier time because the texts actually say that. It's like I said earlier, it's terrorists use people's inability to overcome their sins as a weapon, giving sinners a path to paradise by killing the enemies of Islam. It's like weaponized sinners.

What separates a Muslim from a real Muslim?

 

[printcraft]

The path to paradise is for the righteous. Guess who is following the commandments to the letter?

Hint: It's not the muslim 2.0, you know, the ones that want to get along with the rest of the world, raise their kids etc.

 

[jamil]

What separates a Muslim from a real Muslim?

Probably you should ask a Muslim. It depends on what they believe. Moderate Muslims say they're the "real" Muslims. Radicals say they are.

 

[hog slayer]

Probably you should ask a Muslim. It depends on what they believe. Moderate Muslims say they're the "real" Muslims. Radicals say they are.

I think you're dodging. What makes a Muslim?

Would You agree it's Islam?

What allows the transference of information to be clear and repetitive to Muslims? The Quran, maybe?

How do you escape the violence of the Quran?

Also, I've asked Muslims. But you'd not likely believe what I'd tell you.

 

[ATM]

Muslims just bought a fictional story written down by a guy. Or, they didn't actually buy it and they're just trying to cherry pick some self-help from that fictional story.

What else is there to it (Islam)? It is death made appealing to man to the delight of its designer.

 

[Sylvain]

Sylvain, is "The King James Bible" a well known thing in France? Several people in the USA believe that version to be the literal word of God. I am not raising this question to poke controversy, but out of curiosity. It is a fairly big deal in Christian circles over here, but how is such a specifically English thing viewed by the French?

Well first of all I'm no Bible expert.

I do know about the KJV and have one that I brought back from the States.
I've read it both in English and French but I haven't really compared the two versions.
The French version is translated directly from previous versions of the Bible especially in Latin (one of the first French version in 1528, so before the KJV of 1611).
I'm not sure if you can find a KJV translated into French ... well after a quick Google search it turns out you can (paralel version in both French and English) but I'm not sure those are very common.
I'm not sure what is the most used and considered "true" translation used in French.
Obviously the majority of people in France don't read the KJV which is in English.

I'm not sure how good of translation it is when it has been translated from Hebrew to Latin to English and finally to French.It would be interested to compare to one translated from Hebrew directly into French.

I'm not sure I have even answered your question.

 

[actaeon277]

I seem to remember, that the KKK was "targeted" by law enforcement. Arrested a lot of their members.
Oh. Maybe night right away.
But eventually, the KKK was determined to be a threat. So, then law enforcement went after them.

So, does this mean that law enforcement shouldn't have happened.
That we should have let their reign of terror continue, because we shouldn't have "targeted" them?

 

[jamil]

I seem to remember, that the KKK was "targeted" by law enforcement. Arrested a lot of their members.
Oh. Maybe night right away.
But eventually, the KKK was determined to be a threat. So, then law enforcement went after them.

So, does this mean that law enforcement shouldn't have happened.
That we should have let their reign of terror continue, because we shouldn't have "targeted" them?

The KKK isn't really comparable in the way you want to apply it. The KKK was an organization of terrorists. Muslims are a religion based on Islam which has some members who are terrorists. Since it is a religion, and people are free in this country to practice their religion, law enforcement could not go "after them". Targeting an entire religious group is unconstitutional. But certainly we can target individuals who conspire to commit and carry out acts of terrorism.

 

[jamil]

I think you're dodging. What makes a Muslim?

Would You agree it's Islam?

What allows the transference of information to be clear and repetitive to Muslims? The Quran, maybe?

How do you escape the violence of the Quran?

Also, I've asked Muslims. But you'd not likely believe what I'd tell you.

I'm not dodging. I'm answering the question as I interpreted it. If you wanted me to answer it a specific way, I'm sorry but I'm not going to spend time thinking of all the ways you might want me to answer it. I'll say what it means to me.

As I've said, I'm not disputing that the Quran makes it damn easy for some Muslims to be radicalized, and that's a problem. But as has been pointed out repeatedly, 1.8 billion Muslims aren't committing and supporting acts of terrorism. Many are. A large portion of Muslims do. And that's a problem. But I'm not going to make general sweeping statements that the facts don't support. I'm not going to say all Muslims are evil.

 

[jamil]

Muslims just bought a fictional story written down by a guy. Or, they didn't actually buy it and they're just trying to cherry pick some self-help from that fictional story.

What else is there to it (Islam)? It is death made appealing to man to the delight of its designer.

Change the name and you can say the same about all religions. As for the rest, you still haven't explained your "designer" theory. I'm interested if you care to elaborate in plain language. The obfuscative "sensei" language isn't very useful to anyone but you.