Oklahoma Governor Signs Defensive Display Bill into Law

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  • dozer13

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    Governor Mary Fallin signed Oklahoma’s defensive display bill, SB 40, into law earlier this month. The bill will go into effect on November 1. The vast majority of defensive gun uses consist of showing the perpetrator that the intended victim is armed. Unfortunately, many states have laws that do not recognize that reality.


    In many states, merely pointing a firearm at another person, even for self defense, can be a felony, usually aggravated assault. The problem is that prosecutors with an agenda have used those laws to punish people for finding themselves in clear self defense situations.


    Because of that, states have started to clarify the ability to threaten force without shooting. These laws protect the use of defensively displaying a weapon. Arizona, Florida, Iowa, and other states have enacted defensive display laws similar to the Oklahoma bill.


    The Oklahoma law is now fairly clear. From oklegislature.com:


    J. A person pointing a weapon at a perpetrator in self-defense or in order to thwart, stop or deter a forcible felony or attempted forcible felony shall not be deemed guilty of committing a criminal act.


    K. As used in this section:


    1. “Defensive force” includes, but shall not be limited to, pointing a weapon at a perpetrator in self-defense or in order to thwart, stop or deter a forcible felony or attempted forcible felony;


    Estimates of defensive gun uses vary from about 100,000 to 3 million each year (CDC pdf).
    Only 1,500 to 3,000 people are justifiably killed each year in defensive gun use situations. About five to ten times that many are shot and wind up hospitalized. About five to ten times that number are shot at, but missed. The number of times when no shots are fired are about 90 – 95 percent of all defensive cases.

    It’s generally considered a much better outcome if an attacker runs away, rather than being shot and/or killed. Perhaps they will be disuaded from engaging in further attacks. But this law makes it unlikely that innocent defenders will be penalized for successfully defending themselves without firing a shot.

    Could we use something like this here?
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Governor Mary Fallin signed Oklahoma’s defensive display bill, SB 40, into law earlier this month. The bill will go into effect on November 1. The vast majority of defensive gun uses consist of showing the perpetrator that the intended victim is armed. Unfortunately, many states have laws that do not recognize that reality.


    In many states, merely pointing a firearm at another person, even for self defense, can be a felony, usually aggravated assault. The problem is that prosecutors with an agenda have used those laws to punish people for finding themselves in clear self defense situations.


    Because of that, states have started to clarify the ability to threaten force without shooting. These laws protect the use of defensively displaying a weapon. Arizona, Florida, Iowa, and other states have enacted defensive display laws similar to the Oklahoma bill.


    The Oklahoma law is now fairly clear. From oklegislature.com:


    J. A person pointing a weapon at a perpetrator in self-defense or in order to thwart, stop or deter a forcible felony or attempted forcible felony shall not be deemed guilty of committing a criminal act.


    K. As used in this section:


    1. “Defensive force” includes, but shall not be limited to, pointing a weapon at a perpetrator in self-defense or in order to thwart, stop or deter a forcible felony or attempted forcible felony;


    Estimates of defensive gun uses vary from about 100,000 to 3 million each year (CDC pdf).
    Only 1,500 to 3,000 people are justifiably killed each year in defensive gun use situations. About five to ten times that many are shot and wind up hospitalized. About five to ten times that number are shot at, but missed. The number of times when no shots are fired are about 90 – 95 percent of all defensive cases.

    It’s generally considered a much better outcome if an attacker runs away, rather than being shot and/or killed. Perhaps they will be disuaded from engaging in further attacks. But this law makes it unlikely that innocent defenders will be penalized for successfully defending themselves without firing a shot.

    Could we use something like this here?

    I'm not sure. There's going to need to be a LOT of clarification in to how that can be applied.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Are LEO's held to the same standard as Joe Citizen?

    Can't say I remember any Joe Citizens issuing traffic tickets and arresting for misdemeanors.... are you implying that Joe Citizens should have the same powers and fantastic abilities as LEOs?
     

    Benp

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    Are LEO's held to the same standard as Joe Citizen?
    Can't say I remember any Joe Citizens issuing traffic tickets and arresting for misdemeanors.... are you implying that Joe Citizens should have the same powers and fantastic abilities as LEOs?
    It sounds like Joniki is asking about a scenario where a LEO is at home and someone breaks into their house, would the LEO be in trouble for pointing a gun and not shooting.
    I could be wrong.
     

    Joniki

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    Can't say I remember any Joe Citizens issuing traffic tickets and arresting for misdemeanors.... are you implying that Joe Citizens should have the same powers and fantastic abilities as LEOs?

    Fantastic abilities... That caused a belly laugh.

    I am asking about holding someone at gun point during or after a crime. Why should I be treated differently than a LEO? Why are the laws different?
     

    LP1

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    Based on what I've read in this thread, it sounds like under Indiana law...
    1) If a person discharges a firearm in legitimate self defense, it's OK, but
    2) If a person facing a threat (in a legitimate self-defense situation) merely points a firearm at another person and decides not to fire, then they are committing a crime?
    If that's accurate, it makes no sense.
    What am I missing?
     

    Alpo

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    Can't say I remember any Joe Citizens issuing traffic tickets and arresting for misdemeanors.... are you implying that Joe Citizens should have the same powers and fantastic abilities as LEOs?

    Fantastic abilities...like eating a dozen cruellers and not getting your blues sticky?
     

    dozer13

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    as far as i understand if im not being threatened with a weapon (i.e. deadly force) i cant respond with my pistol by any means. My left hand was injured years ago by a dog bite after several surgeries i had my left index finger amputated an with the withdrawing tendon i can no longer make a fist with my left hand. I have the medical definition of a glass jaw. Had my all 4 wisdom teeth cut out when i was 19, years later after ignoring pain in my lower jaw finally broke down a seen a dentist seems i got a second set of lower wisdom teeth(didn't even know that was possible) the pain was from the left one decaying an had ate away some 40% of my jaw bone itself leaving it weak on the left side. For a mere $6500 i could have got a titanium plate/brace screwed in (insert bond villain joke here) while declining i was warned any trauma to my jaw will likely break it car accident/air bag,fall,even simply running in to a door.

    so now some one who may wish to punch me in the face is most likely going to cause me great bodily harm (whether they know it or not) legally im to just take it (assuming i cant run away)?
     

    Vigilant

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    Can't say I remember any Joe Citizens issuing traffic tickets and arresting for misdemeanors.... are you implying that Joe Citizens should have the same powers and fantastic abilities as LEOs?
    Nope, just the ones that attract bunnies to badges and sniffers to holsters, you can keep the other stuff!
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Fantastic abilities... That caused a belly laugh.

    I am asking about holding someone at gun point during or after a crime. Why should I be treated differently than a LEO? Why are the laws different?

    This isn't the point I'm making. I have no issue with Joe Citizen pointing a gun, of even firing, during self-defense or during the commission of a forcible felony. My issue is the "prevent" part. Prevent implying that it is possible that the crime has not yet occurred. If you get into an argument with your neighbor, and he says he's going to whup your ass, and starts walking across the street can you pull out your Roscoe and point it at him? "Prevent" would appear to be subjective based on the person.
     

    MCgrease08

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    Estimates of defensive gun uses vary from about 100,000 to 3 million each year (CDC pdf).
    Only 1,500 to 3,000 people are justifiably killed each year in defensive gun use situations. About five to ten times that many are shot and wind up hospitalized. About five to ten times that number are shot at, but missed. The number of times when no shots are fired are about 90 – 95 percent of all defensive cases.

    Do you know where these numbers come from? Most stats I've seen put justifiable homicides in the low 200s. Most anti-gun groups bang this number all the time to "prove" that DGUs are rare.

    We all know justifiable homicides don't = DGUs, but it would be nice to counter that their justifiable homicides numbers are wrong too.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Roscoe? Is that like a John Thomas?

    My grandpa always used that word. He didn't carry a "Roscoe" on his person, but he for damn sure always carried a "hawkbill" everywhere he went (and he wasn't a painter). lol
     

    dozer13

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    Do you know where these numbers come from? Most stats I've seen put justifiable homicides in the low 200s. Most anti-gun groups bang this number all the time to "prove" that DGUs are rare.

    We all know justifiable homicides don't = DGUs, but it would be nice to counter that their justifiable homicides numbers are wrong too.

    https://www.nap.edu/catalog/18319/p...reduce-the-threat-of-firearm-related-violence

    GUN WATCH: The Lethality of Shootings in Wisconsin

    GUN WATCH: How many Justified Homicides occur each Year?

    mind you that 2 of these are blogs so i cant vouch for their numbers.

    also the link for the article i should have included in original post.
    Oklahoma Governor Signs Defensive Display Bill into Law - The Truth About Guns
     

    Alamo

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    Texas has a possibly similar provision, where if the use of force or deadly force is legal, one can produce a weapon (not just a handgun) with intent to indicate that he is willing to use deadly force if necessary. I'm not tied into every arrest/investigation in Texas, but it doesn't seem to have been a problem. For 2016, out of about one million License to Carry holders, there were 14 that were convicted of some form of "unlawful carry" or "terroristic threat".
     

    Joniki

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    This isn't the point I'm making. I have no issue with Joe Citizen pointing a gun, of even firing, during self-defense or during the commission of a forcible felony. My issue is the "prevent" part. Prevent implying that it is possible that the crime has not yet occurred. If you get into an argument with your neighbor, and he says he's going to whup your ass, and starts walking across the street can you pull out your Roscoe and point it at him? "Prevent" would appear to be subjective based on the person.

    I am going to let this rest....
     
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