"The perfect man"

[7.62]

I agree with you on this point. Do your own research. Evaluate the authors you read. Check their bias. Every author has one, just check to know what it is before you start the serious study.

Those you call lies have a long history behind them. Do not accept my point of view. Go read the Quran, the Hadiths, the objectives histories of Muhammad and his followers. Read how he fell into trances and his words were recorded by those standing by. Read how the sayings were gathered into one approved version and then all others were destroyed, along with those who worked on them.

Then read the history of what Jesus did and taught. Read how it was his followers who were executed, not the ones doing the execution—at least those who followed him in the early years. The Crusades were led by people who refused to obey his teaching and used his name as a means of gaining power and wealth.

Compare the ideals of Jesus with the ideals of Muhammad. What do people do when they live by the teachings of these men. It is a very enlightening study.

Again, I agree with you, 7.62, on this point. Folks should study and do their own research.

I have studied much about Islam and Muhammad. Which is part of why I was led to Islam (I was born and raised in Christian family). I agree Jesus was a noble man and a prophet of God. But I also believe Muhammad was. And although I am nowhere near a Islamic scholar, I read the entire Quran each year and have read most of the Hadiaths of Muhammad and what I read tells me to be peaceful, loving, etc. I have yet to find anything telling me otherwise.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I guess.

I would think we could believe different things about the ultimate reality, really, truly, deeply disagree about the nature of God, without the hate.

There's usually a pretty secular reason, ranging from pride to politics, to denigrate another religion. You deal with conflict professionally. You know the power of us vs them. IIRC, you deal with malpractice suits. I'm sure you know the doctors most likely to be sued aren't the ones who make the most mistakes, or even the most egregious mistakes. They are the ones who rate the lowest on bedside manner/friendliness. It's harder to sue someone you like, someone you feel a relationship with, someone you share empathy for. Someone who's alien, different, distant, more "them"...much easier to have conflict with.

 

[HoughMade]

There's usually a pretty secular reason, ranging from pride to politics, to denigrate another religion. You deal with conflict professionally. You know the power of us vs them. IIRC, you deal with malpractice suits. I'm sure you know the doctors most likely to be sued aren't the ones who make the most mistakes, or even the most egregious mistakes. They are the ones who rate the lowest on bedside manner/friendliness. It's harder to sue someone you like, someone you feel a relationship with, someone you share empathy for. Someone who's alien, different, distant, more "them"...much easier to have conflict with.

You are correct.

...and the ones who take on the hardest cases.

 

[RiNo6589]

The billboard displays a garment of general fit, and the "victims" claim it is cut to fit them.

I like the way you put this.

 

[printcraft]

Lies. Rapist, 6 yo wife, Behead 600 Jews, Torture nonbelivers.

Higher or lower?

 

[RiNo6589]

I have studied much about Islam and Muhammad. Which is part of why I was led to Islam (I was born and raised in Christian family). I agree Jesus was a noble man and a prophet of God. But I also believe Muhammad was. And although I am nowhere near a Islamic scholar, I read the entire Quran each year and have read most of the Hadiaths of Muhammad and what I read tells me to be peaceful, loving, etc. I have yet to find anything telling me otherwise.

I'm glad to see a polar view on this. If I may ask, have you ever heard of the idea of Taqiya? And does this ultimately void any good word a Muslim says, or is this parallel to some of the radical teachings in the bible?

 

[7.62]

I'm glad to see a polar view on this. If I may ask, have you ever heard of the idea of Taqiya? And does this ultimately void any good word a Muslim says, or is this parallel to some of the radical teachings in the bible?

Yes, I have heard of it. But im not sure I follow the second half of your question.

 

[gunsisgood]

[video=youtube_share;GfxUpR83Wzo]http://youtu.be/GfxUpR83Wzo[/video]

 

[printcraft]

Yes, I have heard of it. But im not sure I follow the second half of your question.

So Taqiya does exist?

 

[RiNo6589]

Yes, I have heard of it. But im not sure I follow the second half of your question.

If a Muslim speaks the word of peace, and acceptance, but follows the rule of Taqiya, then is it reasonable or unreasonable to think that it's possible for all true Muslims to lie and deceive in order to further the cause of the religion? Or is this an antiquated ideology?

 

[RiNo6589]

If a Muslim speaks the word of peace, and acceptance, but follows the rule of Taqiya, then is it reasonable or unreasonable to think that it's possible for all true Muslims to lie and deceive in order to further the cause of the religion? Or is this an antiquated ideology?

I'm not attacking or singling out, I'm just curious how the other side of the "religious coin" perceives these things.

 

[RiNo6589]

So Taqiya does exist?

Yes. At least the idea of it. That's not to say that it is a commonly followed ideology.
28." Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Auliya (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allah warns you against Himself (His Punishment), and to Allah is the final return." Quran 3.28.

 

[TheDude]

Abu Dawud 38:4458 - Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: “A slave-girl belonging to the house of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) committed fornication. He (the Prophet) said: Rush up, Ali, and inflict the prescribed punishment on her. I then hurried up, and saw that blood was flowing from her, and did not stop. So I came to him and he said: Have you finished inflicting (punishment on her)? I said: I went to her while her blood was flowing. He said: Leave her alone till her bleeding stops; then inflict the prescribed punishment on her. And inflict the prescribed punishment on those whom your right hands possess (i.e. slaves)”. A slave girl is ordered by Muhammad to be beaten until she bleeds, and then beaten again after the bleeding stops. He indicates that this is prescribed treatment for slaves ("those whom your right hand possesses").


I dunno, been reading out of boredom and sounds like one of those is pretty true.

 

[7.62]

If a Muslim speaks the word of peace, and acceptance, but follows the rule of Taqiya, then is it reasonable or unreasonable to think that it's possible for all true Muslims to lie and deceive in order to further the cause of the religion? Or is this an antiquated ideology?

I would say its unreasonable to believe that all of any group would do something. But in this case no I dont think its reasonable that 1.5 Billion Muslims would lie in order to further the cause of religion. If I did believe that then I wouldnt be a Muslim myself. I have no desire to change anyones religion or push for any cause. The only thing I want in regards to "my religion vs yours/theirs" is to close the divide that causes so many problems.

 

[TheDude]

Muhammad elsewhere encouraged his men to marry “young girls” for sexual pleasure:
"Allah's Apostle said to me, "Have you got married O Jabir?" I replied, "Yes." He asked "What, a virgin or a matron?" I replied, "Not a virgin but a matron." He said, "Why did you not marry a young girl who would have fondled with you?" (Bukhari 59:382)
Lest there be any doubt by what he meant by “young,” Muhammad set the example by marrying and having sex with Aisha when she was only 9-years-old:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: “Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine.” (Sahih Muslim 3309) This is confirmed in many other hadith as well.
According to the most reliable traditions, Aisha brought her dolls to Muhammad’s house for play (Muslim 3341) and he would fondle the little girl in the tub while taking baths with her (Bukhari 6:298). Aisha was just a teenager by the time Muhammad died, but she had already spent over half her life in marriage to himEven worse for Muslims is that part of the Quran was actually "revealed" while Muhammad was in bed with this little girl:
[Muhammad said] "…the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of Aisha." (Bukhari 47:755)




This is from a website debunking Muhammed myths. I guess you could read it however you like much the Christians and the Bible?

 

[7.62]

A verse from the Quran I strongly believe in.

"You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion."

The Quran teaches that we should be accepting of others religions and not force it upon non believers of Islam. The "Muslims" that believe that murder, hate, terrorism, etc is permissable to further promote religion are strictly violating the teachings of the Quran and I, for one, do not consider them Muslims.

 

[TheDude]

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

“He that chooses a religion over Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will be one of the lost.” Quran 3:85





Not arguing, just saying.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

Surah 5:51 Examined - Don’t take the Jews and Christians as Friends? if you want an indepth analysis. If you don't, realize that the idea you can't be friends with non-Muslims would be directly contradictory to a host of other verses and to the example Mohammed set.

As I stated in the other thread, I've no interest in arguing. I'd recommend not taking a look at individual verses of a translation without context, same as you shouldn't with any holy book. https://www.amazon.com/Towards-Unde...dp/0860374165?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0 is an excellent resource if you truly wish to learn.

 

[7.62]

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

“He that chooses a religion over Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will be one of the lost.” Quran 3:85





Not arguing, just saying.

For the 1st verse you are quoting, again context is everything. There are many quotes in the Quran talking about specific times, events, etc. Such as the wars during this time. This is one of them. For further explaination of this or other verses in Quran I would point you to a Quran with English translation and commentary footnotes. Its a start of the context. Further research is helpful.

As far as your second verse. That means exactally what it says. And I believe it to be true. But dont all religions believe if you dont believe that religion that you will not be saved?

 

[RiNo6589]

I would say its unreasonable to believe that all of any group would do something. But in this case no I dont think its reasonable that 1.5 Billion Muslims would lie in order to further the cause of religion. If I did believe that then I wouldnt be a Muslim myself. I have no desire to change anyones religion or push for any cause. The only I want in regards to "my religion vs yours/theirs" is to close the divide that causes so many problems.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for your candid insight.