PCC best practices

[rhino]

Class is overrated.

I shall never know . . . I have none.

 

[Coach]

I shall never know . . . I have none.

I agree and I will join you in that group. I think it is like speed. Overrated.

 

[jakemartens]

11 pages...
I will never get this time back and now feel just a little bit dumber

 

[Tanfodude]

11 pages...
I will never get this time back and now feel just a little bit dumber

11?? I only have 3 pages.

 

[riverman67]

11 pages...
I will never get this time back and now feel just a little bit dumber

It was fun
Admit it.

 

[riverman67]

I agree and I will join you in that group. I think it is like speed. Overrated.

I will never know
No class and no speed

 

[colt22man]

Come down tomorrow, should be worth another page or two.

 

[Bosshoss]

11 pages...
I will never get this time back and now feel just a little bit dumber

Well that was helpful

 

[Latewatch]

Come down tomorrow, should be worth another page or two.

I plan on adding to the PCC saga tomorrow..............

 

[jakemartens]

Well that was helpful

I do my best to stay out of these things
But here you go

-PCC is provisions, suggestions are welcomed.
-If you are a match director and do not want to recognize the division that will still be an option
-If you recognize the division then you should treat it the same as any other division, do not alter your stages for PCC, there is no reason to do this
-Do not over think it, the more you try "enforce" local rules the more confusing and less consistent the handling of a pcc will be
-Follow the rules just like you do with any other division
-start positions are easy to add to WSB, low ready, stock on belt, muzzle touching etc
-condition of the pcc should be the same as the handgun, i.e. unloaded start defaults to the same has handgun "hammer down, bolt closed" not safety on, you don't have safety on the handgun
-reloads from pockets are fine, just like in all the other divisions

The simpler you make it the easier it is, that doesn't mean less safe.
-Staging area, side berm, bagged, bring to line flagged, muzzle up or down
-no handling outside of these areas other than a safe table
-Unload, show clear, hammer down, flag, This is exactly the same has a handgun, just change holster to flag.

Why hammer, down, same reason you hammer down on a handgun, to ensure that the chamber is clear and there is no ammo
So yeah you have to bring the bolt back to flag, but now you know for sure that there was not a round in the gun and there is a visible flag.

Flagging, you are responsible for your flag, just like you are responsible for your holster, learn how to unload, show clear, hammer down and flag your PCC.

Just like at the begining of your shooters meeting you say things like
"no gun handling except at the safe table and no ammo at the safe table"
you add
"PCC's in a bag or flagged on a cart, bag and unbag in side berm, must be flagged, muzzle up or down to the start position, no sight picture or other handling unless at a safe table"
"Sweeping yourself or any one else is a dq"

Over the last year and half I have been to matches all over the country, the more you try to complicate things the harder it is for people, the competitor and the RO, to make sure that they are doing what you want.
I have not been to a range yet that doesn't have a side berm, keep it simple.
Sweeping, make it clear, a flagged PCC can only be muzzle up or down when transporting or in a bag/cart

I said that suggestions are welcome and I mean that.
However I really mean suggestions, not "PCC is dumb get rid of if"
"I have seen more people get sweeped and we shouldn't have it" You are an RO, did you address this or just want to complain? Because two weeks after a match what would you like for USPSA to do?
What we have done is give a set of rules and best practices, and as RO's asked that they be enforced just like we ask you to enforce handgun rules.

"I don't like it" - well that is a great suggestions, I would bet that some people don't like open because it is loud, or revolver because you sweep yourself when you reload..I don't like classic targets but they are at matches so I can either pound sand or shoot.

If you are an RO, learn the rules and the commands, don't make up stuff, don't make your own interpretations.

 

[kevinm]

I do my best to stay out of these things
But here you go

-PCC is provisions, suggestions are welcomed.
-If you are a match director and do not want to recognize the division that will still be an option
-If you recognize the division then you should treat it the same as any other division, do not alter your stages for PCC, there is no reason to do this
-Do not over think it, the more you try "enforce" local rules the more confusing and less consistent the handling of a pcc will be
-Follow the rules just like you do with any other division
-start positions are easy to add to WSB, low ready, stock on belt, muzzle touching etc
-condition of the pcc should be the same as the handgun, i.e. unloaded start defaults to the same has handgun "hammer down, bolt closed" not safety on, you don't have safety on the handgun
-reloads from pockets are fine, just like in all the other divisions

The simpler you make it the easier it is, that doesn't mean less safe.
-Staging area, side berm, bagged, bring to line flagged, muzzle up or down
-no handling outside of these areas other than a safe table
-Unload, show clear, hammer down, flag, This is exactly the same has a handgun, just change holster to flag.

Why hammer, down, same reason you hammer down on a handgun, to ensure that the chamber is clear and there is no ammo
So yeah you have to bring the bolt back to flag, but now you know for sure that there was not a round in the gun and there is a visible flag.

Flagging, you are responsible for your flag, just like you are responsible for your holster, learn how to unload, show clear, hammer down and flag your PCC.

Just like at the begining of your shooters meeting you say things like
"no gun handling except at the safe table and no ammo at the safe table"
you add
"PCC's in a bag or flagged on a cart, bag and unbag in side berm, must be flagged, muzzle up or down to the start position, no sight picture or other handling unless at a safe table"
"Sweeping yourself or any one else is a dq"

Over the last year and half I have been to matches all over the country, the more you try to complicate things the harder it is for people, the competitor and the RO, to make sure that they are doing what you want.
I have not been to a range yet that doesn't have a side berm, keep it simple.
Sweeping, make it clear, a flagged PCC can only be muzzle up or down when transporting or in a bag/cart

I said that suggestions are welcome and I mean that.
However I really mean suggestions, not "PCC is dumb get rid of if"
"I have seen more people get sweeped and we shouldn't have it" You are an RO, did you address this or just want to complain? Because two weeks after a match what would you like for USPSA to do?
What we have done is give a set of rules and best practices, and as RO's asked that they be enforced just like we ask you to enforce handgun rules.

"I don't like it" - well that is a great suggestions, I would bet that some people don't like open because it is loud, or revolver because you sweep yourself when you reload..I don't like classic targets but they are at matches so I can either pound sand or shoot.

If you are an RO, learn the rules and the commands, don't make up stuff, don't make your own interpretations.

Well said !!! How the weather going to be at the next match !!!!!

 

[rhino]

I want to disagree with something, yet I can't.

I do my best to stay out of these things
But here you go

-PCC is provisions, suggestions are welcomed.
-If you are a match director and do not want to recognize the division that will still be an option
-If you recognize the division then you should treat it the same as any other division, do not alter your stages for PCC, there is no reason to do this
-Do not over think it, the more you try "enforce" local rules the more confusing and less consistent the handling of a pcc will be
-Follow the rules just like you do with any other division
-start positions are easy to add to WSB, low ready, stock on belt, muzzle touching etc
-condition of the pcc should be the same as the handgun, i.e. unloaded start defaults to the same has handgun "hammer down, bolt closed" not safety on, you don't have safety on the handgun
-reloads from pockets are fine, just like in all the other divisions

The simpler you make it the easier it is, that doesn't mean less safe.
-Staging area, side berm, bagged, bring to line flagged, muzzle up or down
-no handling outside of these areas other than a safe table
-Unload, show clear, hammer down, flag, This is exactly the same has a handgun, just change holster to flag.

Why hammer, down, same reason you hammer down on a handgun, to ensure that the chamber is clear and there is no ammo
So yeah you have to bring the bolt back to flag, but now you know for sure that there was not a round in the gun and there is a visible flag.

Flagging, you are responsible for your flag, just like you are responsible for your holster, learn how to unload, show clear, hammer down and flag your PCC.

Just like at the begining of your shooters meeting you say things like
"no gun handling except at the safe table and no ammo at the safe table"
you add
"PCC's in a bag or flagged on a cart, bag and unbag in side berm, must be flagged, muzzle up or down to the start position, no sight picture or other handling unless at a safe table"
"Sweeping yourself or any one else is a dq"

Over the last year and half I have been to matches all over the country, the more you try to complicate things the harder it is for people, the competitor and the RO, to make sure that they are doing what you want.
I have not been to a range yet that doesn't have a side berm, keep it simple.
Sweeping, make it clear, a flagged PCC can only be muzzle up or down when transporting or in a bag/cart

I said that suggestions are welcome and I mean that.
However I really mean suggestions, not "PCC is dumb get rid of if"
"I have seen more people get sweeped and we shouldn't have it" You are an RO, did you address this or just want to complain? Because two weeks after a match what would you like for USPSA to do?
What we have done is give a set of rules and best practices, and as RO's asked that they be enforced just like we ask you to enforce handgun rules.

"I don't like it" - well that is a great suggestions, I would bet that some people don't like open because it is loud, or revolver because you sweep yourself when you reload..I don't like classic targets but they are at matches so I can either pound sand or shoot.

If you are an RO, learn the rules and the commands, don't make up stuff, don't make your own interpretations.

 

[blkrifle]

for what Jake said!

 

[riverman67]

Dammit Jake
You need to find a different job
You're no fun anymore
And I hate agreeing with you

 

[Grelber]

Dammit Jake
You need to find a different job
You're no fun anymore
And I hate agreeing with you

He makes a good point about open being too loud though!

 

[sv40sw45]

He makes a good point about open being too loud though!

Lower the power factor

 

[Bosshoss]

Thank you Jake I agree with everything you said and for the record I don't care about PCC one way or another.
I listed my observations and concerns that is all.

But........... even though anyone who says anything bad about PCC is called a whiny ***** I might as well remove any doubt.

I do my best to stay out of these things
But here you go

-PCC is provisions, suggestions are welcomed.
-If you are a match director and do not want to recognize the division that will still be an option
-If you recognize the division then you should treat it the same as any other division, do not alter your stages for PCC, there is no reason to do this
-Do not over think it, the more you try "enforce" local rules the more confusing and less consistent the handling of a pcc will be
-Follow the rules just like you do with any other division
-start positions are easy to add to WSB, low ready, stock on belt, muzzle touching etc
-condition of the pcc should be the same as the handgun, i.e. unloaded start defaults to the same has handgun "hammer down, bolt closed" not safety on, you don't have safety on the handgun

​Yeah that was a brain fart my my account. I knew I screwed that up just a few seconds after I did that. Good learning experience.

-reloads from pockets are fine, just like in all the other divisions

The simpler you make it the easier it is, that doesn't mean less safe.
-Staging area, side berm, bagged, bring to line flagged, muzzle up or down
-no handling outside of these areas other than a safe table
-Unload, show clear, hammer down, flag, This is exactly the same has a handgun, just change holster to flag.

Why hammer, down, same reason you hammer down on a handgun, to ensure that the chamber is clear and there is no ammo
So yeah you have to bring the bolt back to flag, but now you know for sure that there was not a round in the gun and there is a visible flag.
I understand this just said it it weird to have a shooter recock a gun after clearing.

Flagging, you are responsible for your flag, just like you are responsible for your holster, learn how to unload, show clear, hammer down and flag your PCC.

Just like at the begining of your shooters meeting you say things like
"no gun handling except at the safe table and no ammo at the safe table"
you add
"PCC's in a bag or flagged on a cart, bag and unbag in side berm, must be flagged, muzzle up or down to the start position, no sight picture or other handling unless at a safe table"
"Sweeping yourself or any one else is a dq"
OK as much as I hate to say anything I already said my piece about sweeping. This weekend at Silver Creek the match director covered the rules at the shooters meeting about PCC. I was watching another squad shoot a stage in a different bay while we were waiting and a long time shooter put his PCC in a bag on a cord reel after he shot and swept 3 or 4 members of his squad. Just 3 hours after this was covered. Did I say anything? **** no because I would be a whiny ***** after reading the reply's here. If that is a problem let me know and I will gladly cut up my RO card. Just stating what I saw and I still think it is a problem. Getting rid of PCC isn't the solution but to say there isn't a problem is BS. Troy says all this is a RO problem not a PCC problem well I have been doing this a while and don't recall ever DQ'ing anyone for sweeping yet in the last few months I have been swept several times and seen others swept even more, what changed? Like I said earlier in the thread most of the sweeping was months ago and it has gotten better.

Over the last year and half I have been to matches all over the country, the more you try to complicate things the harder it is for people, the competitor and the RO, to make sure that they are doing what you want.
I have not been to a range yet that doesn't have a side berm, keep it simple.
Sweeping, make it clear, a flagged PCC can only be muzzle up or down when transporting or in a bag/cart

I said that suggestions are welcome and I mean that.
However I really mean suggestions, not "PCC is dumb get rid of if"
"I have seen more people get sweeped and we shouldn't have it" You are an RO, did you address this or just want to complain? Because two weeks after a match what would you like for USPSA to do?
What we have done is give a set of rules and best practices, and as RO's asked that they be enforced just like we ask you to enforce handgun rules.

"I don't like it" - well that is a great suggestions, I would bet that some people don't like open because it is loud, or revolver because you sweep yourself when you reload..I don't like classic targets but they are at matches so I can either pound sand or shoot.
If you are sweeping yourself reloading a revolver you are doing it wrong

If you are an RO, learn the rules and the commands, don't make up stuff, don't make your own interpretations.

OK I'm done whining now

Really Jake thanks for the reply.

 

[jakemartens]

Thank you Jake I agree with everything you said and for the record I don't care about PCC one way or another.
I listed my observations and concerns that is all.

But........... even though anyone who says anything bad about PCC is called a whiny ***** I might as well remove any doubt.





OK I'm done whining now

Really Jake thanks for the reply.

when a guy breaks the 180 you DQ him, hope that he learns and others also are reminded
DQ some people shooting pcc for sweeping and same principles apply, hope they learn and remind others to be more aware.

 

[colt22man]

Lower the power factor

That's called PCC

 

[jakemartens]

That's called PCC