Discussion of establishing a Church security/safety team

[Gluemanz28]

WOW! You weren’t kidding about it being pricey.

$5,000 to join and $299 a month.

 

[Cameramonkey]

WOW! You weren’t kidding about it being pricey.

$5,000 to join and $299 a month.

it is SIGNIFICANTLY less for churches. That is the price for corporations, schools and universities. But still if you are not a big church with 500+ members it may not be feasible.

 

[thunderchicken]

What a coincidence. I normally run the presentation system but the pastor's husband was out with the flu. He's the one that normally posts up there in the hall. So I handed off my usual duty and took over for him.

By the time the service was over, I had the entire notes portion of the bulletin full of reminders and ideas. Amazing what sitting quietly does for the mind.

Agreed. The last two Sundays, I have been making some notes. I have had my eyes opened by some others thoughts, info and experiences that is allowing me to look at things from a new perspective. It has been good, and I think some folks who were on the fence with the idea of a safety team are more open to the idea (compared to when we first started 2 yrs ago)

 

[Cameramonkey]

Agreed. The last two Sundays, I have been making some notes. I have had my eyes opened by some others thoughts, info and experiences that is allowing me to look at things from a new perspective. It has been good, and I think some folks who were on the fence with the idea of a safety team are more open to the idea (compared to when we first started 2 yrs ago)

One thing I considered that we dont have. Emergency lighting in bathrooms with no windows. It may not be required for building code, but if those rooms are used as storm shelters, its a good idea. And they are not that expensive. They are basically a battery operated light that runs on a rechargeable battery. Lights are off as it charges. When AC power drops, the relay switches on the lights to run off the batteries. Odds are if you are huddled inside the shelter, the lights are probably going to go out. And it gets VERY dark in there otherwise.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MJCFF0C/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IDWEF1JLWN5IX&colid=U0O3S9UCHG2G

EDIT: Just make sure you wire it into an outlet circuit, not the switched light circuit. Otherwise whenever you turn off the light switch the e-light will automatically turn on thinking power was lost. (we actually had an electrician do that once)

 

[thunderchicken]

One thing I considered that we dont have. Emergency lighting in bathrooms with no windows. It may not be required for building code, but if those rooms are used as storm shelters, its a good idea. And they are not that expensive. They are basically a battery operated light that runs on a rechargeable battery. Lights are off as it charges. When AC power drops, the relay switches on the lights to run off the batteries. Odds are if you are huddled inside the shelter, the lights are probably going to go out. And it gets VERY dark in there otherwise.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MJCFF0C/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IDWEF1JLWN5IX&colid=U0O3S9UCHG2G

Excellent point and idea! I was thinking about our inclement weather response yesterday. My concern was, we have some folks that have mobility issues and may not be able to negotion the stairs to get into the basement. So it prompted me to look at other rooms that could be used in the event of severe weather. I am struggling with it because ideally the main hallway would be good because its away from exterior walls...but the dang sky lights present their own challenges.

 

[rhino]

One thing I considered that we dont have. Emergency lighting in bathrooms with no windows. It may not be required for building code, but if those rooms are used as storm shelters, its a good idea. And they are not that expensive. They are basically a battery operated light that runs on a rechargeable battery. Lights are off as it charges. When AC power drops, the relay switches on the lights to run off the batteries. Odds are if you are huddled inside the shelter, the lights are probably going to go out. And it gets VERY dark in there otherwise.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MJCFF0C/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IDWEF1JLWN5IX&colid=U0O3S9UCHG2G

Make sure that you also establish a regular schedule for testing those lights. Where I work, most of the time those lights worked, but we had a couple of power outages over the last couple of years when they did not.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Make sure that you also establish a regular schedule for testing those lights. Where I work, most of the time those lights worked, but we had a couple of power outages over the last couple of years when they did not.

Good point.

When installed due to commercial code they are inspected annually with the portable FEs. Its as simple as pushing a button twice a year when you replace smoke detector batteries when you DIY since that official inspection wont be happening.

 

[freekforge]

Not really the same thing but related. After texas i decided to start hugging the churches during services. All our churches are by each other so its easy to cover all of them. I drive around them during service and get out and shake hands, hold umbrellas and just talk to the folks before and after. Its not too invasive yet the pastors seem to appreciate the efforts. My department is cool with it and it was brought up during a training meeting. I do the same around the school whenever the doors are unlocked since i cant sit outside the school the entire day.

 

[Cameramonkey]

One thing I considered that we dont have. Emergency lighting in bathrooms with no windows. It may not be required for building code, but if those rooms are used as storm shelters, its a good idea. And they are not that expensive. They are basically a battery operated light that runs on a rechargeable battery. Lights are off as it charges. When AC power drops, the relay switches on the lights to run off the batteries. Odds are if you are huddled inside the shelter, the lights are probably going to go out. And it gets VERY dark in there otherwise.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MJCFF0C/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IDWEF1JLWN5IX&colid=U0O3S9UCHG2G

EDIT: Just make sure you wire it into an outlet circuit, not the switched light circuit. Otherwise whenever you turn off the light switch the e-light will automatically turn on thinking power was lost. (we actually had an electrician do that once)

One other thing. I also bought one of these for my home storm shelter and wired it up. With two young kids, darkness was the LAST thing I wanted to worry about in a severe weather event. Its one thing to be huddled listening to scary sounds outside of wind and stuff hitting the house. Cut the lights and it gets exponentially more terrifying for the little ones. flashlights are great, but these fire automatically before you can even think about turning on the flashlights to replace the house lights. It went from a scary place to a cool place after I added mine and we showed them how they work.

 

[thunderchicken]

Good point.

When installed due to commercial code they are inspected annually with the portable FEs. Its as simple as pushing a button twice a year when you replace smoke detector batteries when you DIY since that official inspection wont be happening.

I will be looking further at these lights for use in restrooms. About 2-3 yrs ago we received a letter from the fire marshall to set up an inspection. Found several things we needed to do. Thankfully they didn't fine us for anything. We ended up replacing all of our emergency exit signs and emergency lighting, upgraded our fire alarm, increased the number of fire extinguishers and had to label doors of utility rooms. Also found out we are required to have annual FE inspections and test the fire alarm and have it certified, oh and had to have a knox box installed. Have no idea how stuff hadn't been caught for so many years.

 

[thunderchicken]

Not really the same thing but related. After texas i decided to start hugging the churches during services. All our churches are by each other so its easy to cover all of them. I drive around them during service and get out and shake hands, hold umbrellas and just talk to the folks before and after. Its not too invasive yet the pastors seem to appreciate the efforts. My department is cool with it and it was brought up during a training meeting. I do the same around the school whenever the doors are unlocked since i cant sit outside the school the entire day.

Very nice. We have a sub station in an office building right next door, but we rarely have any officers drive through our lot.

 

[Cameramonkey]

We had our first public meeting last night. A good turnout. Still only a few sheepdogs, but it was nice to see others wanting to get involved, even if its just from the life safety aspect.

Funniest part of the night. The pastor's husband was telling everyone the plan, describing how one persons job is to stand in the hall and intercept anyone wanting to do harm to the members. He finished up, after being vague and not referencing any arms or shooting the bad guy, just that he would stop them, engage, etc. That kind of soft language. One of the old ladies pipes up and says "these guys are going to have guns. Are you going to get a bulletproof vest? How are you going to stop them? We dont want to see you shot! He pointed out that there were quite a few of us that carry every day, so that wouldnt be a problem. We shoot back. She was so oblivious and stuck in the old "its church, you dont need a gun in church, so nobody has one because it is a safe place." mentality. She had no idea there were 3 guns in that room that I can guarantee, possibly 2-3 more. It is likely that there are always 3-5 in church, maybe more. (out of 80-125 attendees)

And as far as AEDs, I didnt get any specifics, but there apparently are grant programs out there for churches and other non-profits. I believe we are getting a Zoll. Not sure if they do the grants, or if that is just what the grant program uses. But just wanted to put that out there.

 

[thunderchicken]

We had our first public meeting last night. A good turnout. Still only a few sheepdogs, but it was nice to see others wanting to get involved, even if its just from the life safety aspect.

Funniest part of the night. The pastor's husband was telling everyone the plan, describing how one persons job is to stand in the hall and intercept anyone wanting to do harm to the members. He finished up, after being vague and not referencing any arms or shooting the bad guy, just that he would stop them, engage, etc. That kind of soft language. One of the old ladies pipes up and says "these guys are going to have guns. Are you going to get a bulletproof vest? How are you going to stop them? We dont want to see you shot! He pointed out that there were quite a few of us that carry every day, so that wouldnt be a problem. We shoot back. She was so oblivious and stuck in the old "its church, you dont need a gun in church, so nobody has one because it is a safe place." mentality. She had no idea there were 3 guns in that room that I can guarantee, possibly 2-3 more. It is likely that there are always 3-5 in church, maybe more. (out of 80-125 attendees)

And as far as AEDs, I didnt get any specifics, but there apparently are grant programs out there for churches and other non-profits. I believe we are getting a Zoll. Not sure if they do the grants, or if that is just what the grant program uses. But just wanted to put that out there.

Awesome. I continue to be a little surprsised how many people still feel like church is somehow a safe place and are slow to believe that churches are targets. I am also encouraged that some of our folks that didn't buy into a safety/security team or planning are definitely coming around to accepting these realities. Before we had legal advise to revamp our approach, we had a 4 person committee that was heading up our safety/security team. We are planning to sit down and work through some more ways we can become more effective. We have also started going back through and reviewing background checks of anyone involved in driving the bus or working with children. I have been working with the Pastor and we plan to schedule some new training after the first of the year (just too much on the calendar right now).

If you can get any info on where I can find info to apply for an grant that would help us secure an AED that would be appreciated.

 

[actaeon277]

Maybe bring up this statistic
The truth about church shootings - CNN

Chinn has collected data on more than 1,600 "deadly force incidents" since 1999 at all houses of worship, including mosques, synagogues, etc.

 

[Cameramonkey]

If you can get any info on where I can find info to apply for an grant that would help us secure an AED that would be appreciated.

I have a message into the pastor to see if I can get any details to pass along.

 

[Bucky623]

A refurbished AED may be something worth looking in to since they can be had at a lower price.

 

[Bucky623]

[video=youtube;hJ0Bstuzn_0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ0Bstuzn_0[/video]

 

[Cameramonkey]

Except for the annoying graphics and cuts/overdubs, this is a good video. Grossman does an awesome job. I learned a LOT from this presentation.

[video=youtube;kRZb1oskAtI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZb1oskAtI[/video]

 

[thunderchicken]

Couldn't get the first video to play. But the second one had some good info.

 

[Bucky623]

Couldn't get the first video to play. But the second one had some good info.

Maybe this will work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ0Bstuzn_0

The second video is very thought provoking.