The Net Neutrality Thread

[Cameramonkey]

Just a reminder for those that think NN is a bad thing. Here are lots of real world examples (pre NN) where we were screwed by the carriers. I was impacted by at least two of these. So thats probably why I am so adamant against the repeal even though I despise big gov. Now if you treat these as a utility and force competition, then yes, kill NN. But until I can fire Comcast and call Bright House (or whatever they are called this year) to deliver service on the same wire and we have all carriers competing for my dollars in the same space, we need net neutrality.

I have 3 choices at my home:
Comcast: excellent speed, good reliability.*
ATT Uverse: I can get it or not depending on who you ask, and may not be able to exceed 10mbits on a good day.
4G wireless: reasonable speeds for web/email, but insane data caps that prevent any streaming media of any consequence. Forget Netflix, et al. ESPECIALLY for the other 3 people in my household.

*but if they decide that they dont like Magic Jack, they can cripple it and make me spend 5x/month what I spend now for a home phone from them.

https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-violations-brief-history

 

[hoosierdoc]

Disney and ABC are owned by the same company.

If you go to a Disney hotel they have NBC, CBS, and FOX on their TVs. Of course, they could BLOCK those, or charge you more to watch them! But they don't...

 

[wtburnette]

Just a reminder for those that think NN is a bad thing. Here are lots of real world examples (pre NN) where we were screwed by the carriers. I was impacted by at least two of these. So thats probably why I am so adamant against the repeal even though I despise big gov. Now if you treat these as a utility and force competition, then yes, kill NN. But until I can fire Comcast and call Bright House (or whatever they are called this year) to deliver service on the same wire and we have all carriers competing for my dollars in the same space, we need net neutrality.

I have 3 choices at my home:
Comcast: excellent speed, good reliability.*
ATT Uverse: I can get it or not depending on who you ask, and may not be able to exceed 10mbits on a good day.
4G wireless: reasonable speeds for web/email, but insane data caps that prevent any streaming media of any consequence. Forget Netflix, et al. ESPECIALLY for the other 3 people in my household.

*but if they decide that they dont like Magic Jack, they can cripple it and make me spend 5x/month what I spend now for a home phone from them.

https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-violations-brief-history

I'm just hoping the courts or congress can do something. Guess we'll see.

 

[jamil]

Disney and ABC are owned by the same company.

If you go to a Disney hotel they have NBC, CBS, and FOX on their TVs. Of course, they could BLOCK those, or charge you more to watch them! But they don't...

If they did, you could always go to another hotel. Competition keeps companies from ****ing you too hard. That is what’s lacking in the ISP business.

Net neutrality is not a market solution. But neither is not net neutrality. Before NN Comcast got caught throttling netflix. And, you might say, that’s Comcast’s purgative. It’s their business. But netflix is what everyone wants. If people have a choice, they’ll go with the ISP who doesn’t throttle their binge. Comcast can only get away with their **** because people don’t have another choice.

I wish that instead of social media melting down over losing net neutrality, as if the world begun in 2015 and will now end with net neutrality, I wish social media would melt down demanding choice, allowing every ISP be able to lease any lines. That’s the real fix. But the left doesn’t want a market solution. It wants a government solution.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If they did, you could always go to another hotel. Competition keeps companies from ****ing you too hard. That is what’s lacking in the ISP business.

Net neutrality is not a market solution. But neither is not net neutrality. Before NN Comcast got caught throttling netflix. And, you might say, that’s Comcast’s purgative. It’s their business. But netflix is what everyone wants. If people have a choice, they’ll go with the ISP who doesn’t throttle their binge. Comcast can only get away with their **** because people don’t have another choice.

I wish that instead of social media melting down over losing net neutrality, as if the world begun in 2015 and will now end with net neutrality, I wish social media would melt down demanding choice, allowing every ISP be able to lease any lines. That’s the real fix. But the left doesn’t want a market solution. It wants a government solution.

Not just the left. "Their property, their rules" only goes so far.

I read a stat (that I assume is legit) that at peak times, Netflix consumes 37% of the bandwidth (probably of Comcast but I'm not sure). In a free market, the costs would be born by the consumers and profit motive would ensure adequate resources to meet customer demands.

 

[BugI02]

Not just the left. "Their property, their rules" only goes so far.

I read a stat (that I assume is legit) that at peak times, Netflix consumes 37% of the bandwidth (probably of Comcast but I'm not sure). In a free market, the costs would be born by the consumers and profit motive would ensure adequate resources to meet customer demands.

That is exactly what a great deal of the gnashing and rending is all about

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That is exactly what a great deal of the gnashing and rending is all about

The dirty little secret is the costs will be borne by the customers either way...whether financial or slow innovation/investment.

 

[BugI02]

View attachment 61797

 

[voidsherpa]

The sky hasn't fallen yet, stupid chicken little libs.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The sky hasn't fallen yet, stupid chicken little libs.

Give it time. Nobody said the internet would break outright and go dark the minute it passes. The problem this will cause is not obvious, and the symptoms take a while to come to the surface. Like in the case of Comcast/Netflix referenced above. It didnt happen all of the sudden and everyone suddenly realized what was happening. It took months and many smart people to notice the problem and then finally test and figure out what was going on. It will take at least 6 months for problems to percolate up and be noticed. A bit longer if the carriers are nervous that we are now paying attention.

 

[Tombs]

I'm just hoping this finally gives me the option to pay for a better ping time, and stop burdening the cost of people who live on netflix and youtube.

 

[jamil]

Give it time. Nobody said the internet would break outright and go dark the minute it passes. The problem this will cause is not obvious, and the symptoms take a while to come to the surface. Like in the case of Comcast/Netflix referenced above. It didnt happen all of the sudden and everyone suddenly realized what was happening. It took months and many smart people to notice the problem and then finally test and figure out what was going on. It will take at least 6 months for problems to percolate up and be noticed. A bit longer if the carriers are nervous that we are now paying attention.

What? Don't you twitter?

"IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!"

Exactly what did Comcast do? Whatever they did, what happened to correct it?

 

[Cameramonkey]

What? Don't you twitter?

"IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!"

Exactly what did Comcast do? Whatever they did, what happened to correct it?

They were caught throttling Netflix traffic, causing harm to customers. NN passed and they were forced to stop and Netflix users on Commiecast were happy again. Comcast will be free to do that again if they wish. (Assuming it passes)

 

[hoosierdoc]

I want unlimited 4K 3D streaming! No, I don't want to pay more!

 

[churchmouse]

View attachment 61797

Everyone should have the pocket version of the Bill Of Rights for quick reference purposes.
If I had a dime for every idiot that remarked they have the right to something I could buy something cool.

 

[jamil]

I want unlimited 4K 3D streaming! No, I don't want to pay more!

Since everything isn’t equal, NN imposes perhaps an unrealistic market constraint. But one realistic market constraint I like ablut it is preventing your ISP from ratcheting your streeming service which happens to compete with theirs. There are better fixes than NN for that though.

 

[KLB]

Since everything isn’t equal, NN imposes perhaps an unrealistic market constraint. But one realistic market constraint I like ablut it is preventing your ISP from ratcheting your streeming service which happens to compete with theirs. There are better fixes than NN for that though.

To me this is much more of an issue than an ISP throttling Netflix or wanting compensation from Netflix to not do so.

Wanting compensation for a service using a large portion of your network is understandable to me. Customers can be adversely affected by the congestion caused by other customers streaming.

On the other hand, throttling a service to make your service more desirable seems pretty low. Seems like it would be short lived if customers didn't go for it though.

 

[jamil]

They were caught throttling Netflix traffic, causing harm to customers. NN passed and they were forced to stop and Netflix users on Commiecast were happy again. Comcast will be free to do that again if they wish. (Assuming it passes)

Do you have a link to something that establishes that timeline? I would be interested in researching that further.

 

[churchmouse]

Reading this puts a bit of light and clarity on the subject.

 

[voidsherpa]

It's almost like Netflix should cost more because it's using more bandwidth.