Republican Leadership Kills Constitutional Carry Again in 2018

[HKUSP]

Alrighty then. Every revolution begins with a single act of defiance. Who's volunteering or getting drafted to kick this off?

 

[HKUSP]

Really?

Do they lobby at all?
Where are their press releases?
Where is their TV, radio and social media coverage?
Do they rate our state legislators on the 2A like the NRA on the federal level?
Do our state legislators or Bosma even know the name of the organization?


I'm not knocking the ISRPA. I just don't think they do the same thing as the NRA does.

This was exactly my take as well.

 

[KellyinAvon]

QFT - and what influence I have with IMAGC ... is there ...
Interestingly enough - I met and got to know Mr. Lucas, because of the efforts in 2013-2014 sessions -
we (all 6 to 8 at the time) of us and about 1000-1200 followers on FB - were noted by Mr. Lucas as playing a significant role in getting several items passed.

Time have change and we've lost some of the 'small but mighty' ... family additions, job and career changes ... differences in the expectations.

oh and QFT on the Coalition ... any one recall who was the 1 primary ringleader of all of the people in Boston Circa late 1774 - early 1775? how many groups? etc?

lastly - I can't rep you KellyinAvon so ... quoting.

We do have the Founding Fathers, not Founding Father. A lot of names come up from that time, later George Washington led the military while Ben Franklin and John Adams were in France getting their support.

The Constitutional Carry Coalition of Indiana (C3I). More acronyms to follow...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I think recent events have shown any 2A supporter who helped put Bosma in power threw away their vote.

I'll admit that I don't know all the inner workings of the state legislature, but I do know that here in Indy, the city council recently voted in an unpopular Democrat as council president (He "made deals" with some Republicans to get enough votes for him to be elected). The very next session, there were protests to encourage a vote of "no confidence" and it looks as though he will be unseated and another election held. (The Indy city council is majority Democrat). Could something similar be done to unseat Bosma? Isn't he "chosen" by the other members of the majority party in the legislature? Does he have to be completely voted out to remove him as Speaker and replace him with someone that might be more 2A-friendly?

 

[KellyinAvon]

Alrighty then. Every revolution begins with a single act of defiance. Who's volunteering or getting drafted to kick this off?

I nominated Guy Relford for the first pick in the draft, maybe on the other ConC thread.

 

[churchmouse]

Really?

Do they lobby at all?
Where are their press releases?
Where is their TV, radio and social media coverage?
Do they rate our state legislators on the 2A like the NRA on the federal level?
Do our state legislators or Bosma even know the name of the organization?


I'm not knocking the ISRPA. I just don't think they do the same thing as the NRA does.

Not even close.

 

[actaeon277]

You folks can blame others all you want, but Fargo is correct. Constitutional Carry has not been sold to the voting public favorably. Hell, it hasn't even been sold to a lot of gun owners favorably.

If you want to get Bosma's attention, vote out all of the sheriffs that tell him it's a bad idea. Then get all of the R's to go to him insisting that CC gets voted in.

How many here complaining know of the breakdown of R's for and against this? Of course, there is no point in asking about the liberals that some of you suggest that we vote in.

Constitutional Carry has not been sold to the voting public favorably. Hell, it hasn't even been sold to a lot of gun owners favorably

This. We need the general public behind it. Yet we don't even have all the "gun people" behind it.
Most, because of incorrect beliefs.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'll admit that I don't know all the inner workings of the state legislature, but I do know that here in Indy, the city council recently voted in an unpopular Democrat as council president (He "made deals" with some Republicans to get enough votes for him to be elected). The very next session, there were protests to encourage a vote of "no confidence" and it looks as though he will be unseated and another election held. (The Indy city council is majority Democrat). Could something similar be done to unseat Bosma? Isn't he "chosen" by the other members of the majority party in the legislature? Does he have to be completely voted out to remove him as Speaker and replace him with someone that might be more 2A-friendly?

I don't know how that would work in the middle of a term, but the bottom line is that there is no realistic chance of this happening at any point unless either he retires or a D majority is voted in. Unfortunately, he is secure enough in the establishment that so far as the legislature is concerned, he IS the establishment. Larry Borst was eventually voted out by his own district in spite of having been thought bulletproof, but Bosma seems to be in no danger whatsoever of that happening.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

Everyone just think about this.
The Democrats want and will take our guns away from us.

At 1st dist. Rep. Pete Visclosky’s pre-election forums in Michigan City. I alone had to put down Pete Visclosky bold talk about gun control.
I asked Second Amendment groups, Gun ranges and clubs to come and support me. Received none.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Constitutional Carry has not been sold to the voting public favorably. Hell, it hasn't even been sold to a lot of gun owners favorably

This. We need the general public behind it. Yet we don't even have all the "gun people" behind it.
Most, because of incorrect beliefs.

How do we get from where we are to where we want to be? Strategic Communications? Marketing? Re-branding? All of the above? I'm an old GI so I always pick "all of the above" when it's a choice. What is our message? How do we get everyone to stay on message (Hoosier Carry anyone??) Who is our current and potential market for our message and how do we communicate the message? Re-branding... of the INGOers I've met none meet the negative gun owner stereotypes (we have teeth and don't need sub-titles when speaking.)

If we can't put out a consistent message that will be received positively by our intended audience (again, who is our intended audience?) we are pretty much spitting into the wind (Jim Croce).

It was one of the Bills (Brother or of Rights) who said we are going for "the 80%" (not the 10% who will always be anti, not the 10% who is us). That's our audience.

Now, how do we reach them with our message?

 

[churchmouse]

Everyone just think about this.
The Democrats want and will take our guns away from us.

At 1st dist. Rep. Pete Visclosky’s pre-election forums in Michigan City. I alone had to put down Pete Visclosky bold talk about gun control.
I asked Second Amendment groups, Gun ranges and clubs to come and support me. Received none.

It is as I often remark to people when we are discussing not only 2A but other issues we are having problems with. We.....the people that could change this......are mainly working class. We have jobs. We have family's. We have little to no time outside of those responsibility's. Even in retirement (semi) I have near zero time/energy outside my daily routines.
Those who fill the streets and block the roads are not mainly working class. They have the time for such things. This is not an excuse but a solid reason no one shows up. They either have no time/desire/ability to be informed/desire/want to be labeled etc and so on. Did I mention desire.
The media and its crony's have the label makers in full use. I have been called "One of those crazy gun nuts" on multiple occasions when engaged in these debates.

What can we do. It is easy to spend a cup of 's worth of time typing one of these statements out.
It seems to be too much to actually get dressed and make a stand.
Regularly cycling these people out of office would be a start but even that seems to be more work than "We the people" are capable of these days.

Yes, the end game is to get our guns. All of them.

 

[DocHinshaw]

Ok I know I'm going to get beat up here. But, I have carried for close to 40 years. I really don't have a problem with having to get a permit. Yes it's a little inconvenient. Of course I have the Lifetime now. But that card tells a cop if I'm legal to carry or not real quick.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Ok I know I'm going to get beat up here. But, I have carried for close to 40 years. I really don't have a problem with having to get a permit. Yes it's a little inconvenient. Of course I have the Lifetime now. But that card tells a cop if I'm legal to carry or not real quick.

Why do you take the position that it is your responsibility to prove to the cop that you are not engaged in wrong-doing simply for exercising a right, not a conditional privilege, but a right guaranteed by both the United States and Indiana constitutions?

 

[Dorky_D]

These turkeys need to be held accountable!

 

[ATOMonkey]

Mr. Relford was right when he wrote, "that a lot of political capitol would have to be spent." Constitutional carry is not a popular idea. Even among gun owners, the idea of untrained people being allowed to carry a firearm is unsettling. Just imagine how the average person feels, whose only expose to firearms is what they see on the TV. The idea of constitutional carry is terrifying to most people. With the current system, we can trick them into thinking that requiring a background check will keep guns out of the wrong hands.

Mr. Relford was also correct when he said that the other side had emotion and speculation on their side. Well, it's sad to say that emotion and speculation will nearly always prevail over logic and facts. Mostly because the populous at large is uneducated and doesn't place a high standard on education.

Idiocracy was prophetic and I see us marching inexorably toward that future every day.

Until we change our culture we won't see a change in our laws, as government is nearly always a reflection of culture and never the other way 'round.

 

[45acp]

Lets remember this come election time.

 

[Kurr]

Ok I know I'm going to get beat up here. But, I have carried for close to 40 years. I really don't have a problem with having to get a permit. Yes it's a little inconvenient. Of course I have the Lifetime now. But that card tells a cop if I'm legal to carry or not real quick.

Doc, first, welcome to INGO, glad to have you.

Now about that card. Ive seen a lot of people say what you did, but the fact is it does NOT tell the cop if your legal to carry or not. It tells him you were at one time. The are multiple videos on youtube you can watch that show someone producing a LTCH here in Indiana and the officer runs it/calls it in to see if its valid.

I carry a black powder muzzle loading pistol, with out a LTCH, openly most times. I have been stopped and asked for a license, which I have never had. The officer ran the serial on my firearm to make sure it was not stolen, then asked for my license and ran me to make sure I didn't have anything that would prevent me from carrying a firearm.

It's just like with a drivers license. You can show it to the officer, they will run it to make sure it's still valid. So with ConC the process would not change, you get stopped, produce ID which I garuntee the officer is going to ask for anyway, and when they call it in, your either prohibited from carrying or not. ConC would actually save them from having to call in the LTCH separately and take more time.

As it stands now it is ILLEGAL to carry a handgun in Indiana. The license provides a defense against that crime. That is what we're trying to do, change it from being illegal to carry a handgun to legal.

Again, welcome to the site.

 

[ALQ]

You all know that Bosma is getting a campaign contribution from an anti-gun group don't you? This isn't just an issue with Bosma. Every Republican legislator in the House is to blame for continuing to re-elect Bosma as the Speaker when he clearly won't follow his Oath of Office.

 

[IndyMP]

Personally I struggle some with this. While my respect for the second amendment remains unshakable, my observations of many people who walk among us is less comforting. Sometimes I feel that old saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it" speaking to me. I can't rule out that some of the things we wish for in today's environment could come back to bite us. I know far too many people who for any number or reasons, scare me to think of carrying a weapon. It isn't because I think they are stupid or mental or violent so much as I don't see them as EVER taking the responsibility seriously, making an effort to know what they don't know or training themselves to be capable much less safe. As another example, we pushed to be able to use HP rifles for deer hunting, which is great right up to the point where some moron uses a high powered rifle way too close to a friendly environment and has a stray hit a person or worse yet a kid. One such incident could fuel efforts to create a backlash that would consume months or even years of good work and behavior. I don't wish to appear to be batting for the other side, but I don't want to see our own good efforts backfire and damage our other good efforts either. I don't pretend to know where the line should be drawn, but I know we'll pay a price if we carelessly jog over it and in doing so, contribute to our own demise.

 

[chemteach]

I'm a "worker-bee" not an organizer/front-man (or woman), but I certainly could and would kick in some free time and a little cash on a regular basis to support an Indiana state Pro 2A group that produces as much action as it does talk. Maybe one place to look at would be the 13 or so states that already have some form of constitutional carry. Success tends to breed more success.