Trump testing the winds on gun control

[jamil]

Primus, how is this an executive order?
Secundus, the way I interpret paragraphs three, four, and five is that unless they change the definition of fully automatic weapon they will not be able to change the status of bumpstocks (and the various rapid fire trigger modifications). By publishing recommendations for rulemaking for public comment they are doing the regulatory agency thing in the correct way, and coincidently allowing time for emotions to cool. The true tell will be what the recommendations entail, and moreso whether Trump actually adopts them.

Recall that even under Osama, The BATFE had to go after M855 within the framework of existing law (GCA)

1. Thanks for calling me Primus. I kinda like that.

2. I did not say that Trump did this by E.O. and that wasn't the point.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Moments ago Trump just said in a speech that he will personally move bump stocks into NFA if lawmakers do not. (paraphrased)

He specifically said he would "write them out himself" if lawmakers dont. Then said that they belong lumped in with machine guns.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Moments ago Trump just said in a speech that he will personally move bump stocks into NFA if lawmakers do not. (paraphrased)

He specifically said he would "write them out himself" if lawmakers dont. Then said that they belong lumped in with machine guns.

"You shoot weapons rapidly, but not accurately"....another gem from the "pro-2A" president. Lol. So help me, if he's the guy that actually is the spearhead for further restrictions.... I not hear a chorus of defense.

 

[MarkC]

"You shoot weapons rapidly, but not accurately"....another gem from the "pro-2A" president. Lol. So help me, if he's the guy that actually is the spearhead for further restrictions.... I not hear a chorus of defense.

I think this is spot on. The president is a master showman who has proven he is able to get his way through bluster coupled with persistence. He certainly is not as the William Jefferson "Slick Willy" co-presidency (policy determined by polls, or perhaps wind direction), but if he gets persuaded that gun control is a good idea, watch for the onslaught.

 

[bwframe]

Looks like Kut may have finally found his Russia, Russia, Russia / "told you so..." ???

 

[T.Lex]

Looks like Kut may have finally found his Russia, Russia, Russia / "told you so..." ???

Link.

Trump says he would have 'run in there' to stop Parkland shooting - ABC News

"By the way, bump stocks, we're writing that out. I'm writing that out myself. I don't care if Congress does it or not, I'm writing it out myself. You put it into the machine gun category, which is what it is. It becomes essentially a machine gun and nobody's going to be able, it's going to be very hard to get them, so we're writing out bump stocks," he said.

 

[dukeboy_318]

Well I think there's a real possibility SOMETHING gets done. I don't think there's any stopping it this go around.

 

[BugI02]

I'd like to know why more people aren't upset that Trump is trying to make law through executive action. I thought that was ****ty when Obama did it. If the POTUS wants to ban bump-fire stocks, get congress to write the legislation, shepherd it through both houses, and sign it.

Otherwise I think the old School House Rock cartoon needs to be modernized to reflect the discarding of the Constitution.

The BATF did revisit it last summer when the issue came up. Remember how super-genius Trump was for leaving it up to them knowing they couldn’t do anything? That was asserted right here on INGO. Well. You can’t have it both ways. I’d rather his ardent supporters tell him to stop the nonsense, because he might actually listen if he thought he’d lose you. But it doesn’t sound like like you think he’s doing anything wrong. So what makes this acceptable and what Obama did with executive actions not acceptable. Or have we decided that Presidents are entitled to declare the laws they can’t get passed through congress enacted with their pen and phone?

1. Thanks for calling me Primus. I kinda like that.

2. I did not say that Trump did this by E.O. and that wasn't the point.

"Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong"

 

[T.Lex]

executive "action" != executive "order"

The latter is properly classified as a subset of the former, methinks.

Although I don't intend on speaking for jamil if he meant something else.

 

[BugI02]

I believe Trump said he would sign anything congress sent him on immigration, and what was the eventual result of that?

To use a favorite gambit of a couple on this board, I will expect to hear you condemning Trump for lying if it turns out that he does not do this and in fact did not mean what it is thought he said (and I realize his script goes to rewrite often enough that his handlers should be "non-exempt")

 

[T.Lex]

I believe Trump said he would sign anything congress sent him on immigration, and what was the eventual result of that?

To use a favorite gambit of a couple on this board, I will expect to hear you condemning Trump for lying if it turns out that he does not do this and in fact did not mean what it is thought he said (and I realize his script goes to rewrite often enough that his handlers should be "non-exempt")

I'm just waiting for the "but this is a brilliant move" angle.

 

[BugI02]

It may surprise you that the everything Trump does is wrong (whether he is doing what he said he would do or not) thing I find a bit tiring (not singling you out TL). I don't hear much about Cruz going all mealy-mouthed in a situation where he doesn't even have to do much but endure an uncomfortable public appearance. He doesn't have the power to get much done at all (except try to get re-elected) nor an overt obligation to lead on this (or any other) issue, but he was still held up to us as a viable alternative to Trump. Had he become President, how do you think he would be performing now - or any other of the 15

However much I wanted to vote for "A Man for All Seasons", there wasn't one on the ballot

 

[T.Lex]

It may surprise you that the everything Trump does is wrong (whether he is doing what he said he would do or not) thing I find a bit tiring (not singling you out TL). I don't hear much about Cruz going all mealy-mouthed in a situation where he doesn't even have to do much but endure an uncomfortable public appearance. He doesn't have the power to get much done at all (except try to get re-elected) nor an overt obligation to lead on this (or any other) issue, but he was still held up to us as a viable alternative to Trump. Had he become President, how do you think he would be performing now - or any other of the 15

However much I wanted to vote for "A Man for All Seasons", there wasn't one on the ballot

No. You do not get to "but Hillary" out of this.

There were half a dozen Republicans with better 2A cred than Trump.

Just admit that, right now, it looks like a betrayal. Granted, we truly can't trust Trump to actually do what he says he'll do, so that still might save bump stocks. But, this is what caving in to gun control looks like, right?

 

[Kutnupe14]

No. You do not get to "but Hillary" out of this.

There were half a dozen Republicans with better 2A cred than Trump.

Just admit that, right now, it looks like a betrayal. Granted, we truly can't trust Trump to actually do what he says he'll do, so that still might save bump stocks. But, this is what caving in to gun control looks like, right?

Lololol.... I doubt you'll ever see much of that from the faithful. You'd sooner find people willing to say Jesus was wrong.

 

[Drail]

Donald Trump is quite simply learning how to be a politician. It's a dirty job.... and there are NO rules. But the pay is very good and you get armed security and free limousines and a private jet even bigger than Trump's.

 

[T.Lex]

Donald Trump is quite simply learning how to be a politician. It's a dirty job.... and there are NO rules. But the pay is very good and you get armed security and free limousines.

I'm interested in this line of thinking. How is executively banning bumpstocks a good politician move for a president claiming to be pro-2A?

 

[BugI02]

It looks more like a dilemma, but I will agree that he certainly should have waited longer before committing to do anything (mostly especially in order to see if doing anything was really necessary). For someone who has weathered so much constant criticism in other areas, his rush to throw these people a bone could signal that his support of 2A is shallow. In this context, "caving" would be an AWB but I understand the concept of not one inch and agree with it. His performance is less than optimal and concerning, but I believe I will wait until I see what actually happens after all the posturing is done. Will a desire to judge Trump on actual results satisfy you and Casca?

 

[jamil]

"Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong"

I'm not sure about the legal definitions, but I thought an executive order is an official document which orders something to be done. Executive action is an action the executive makes. Like writing a memo. But at any rate, you're just arguing semantics. Trump has said HE'S GOING TO CHANGE THE LAW!

Now. Is that okay for him to do? Or was it just wrong for Obama to do it? Or have you guys just "evolved" your thinking such that the president of any party can just change the law?

I'd really like to see some evidence that your promise is true. I remember during the campaign, I asked you guys if you'd hold Trump accountable. So far I haven't much evidence. And I give you guys a pass on the subjective issues. But this ****? No. The POTUS doesn't get to reclassify stuff that the law clearly defines. The POTUS can't just make bumpfire stocks illegal to purchase just because he thinks it should be. Are you down with that?

 

[jamil]

I believe Trump said he would sign anything congress sent him on immigration, and what was the eventual result of that?

To use a favorite gambit of a couple on this board, I will expect to hear you condemning Trump for lying if it turns out that he does not do this and in fact did not mean what it is thought he said (and I realize his script goes to rewrite often enough that his handlers should be "non-exempt")

Well. This is true. But you realize this puts you in the position of HOPING that your president, they guy you hold in such high esteem, is lying.

 

[jamil]

It may surprise you that the everything Trump does is wrong (whether he is doing what he said he would do or not) thing I find a bit tiring (not singling you out TL). I don't hear much about Cruz going all mealy-mouthed in a situation where he doesn't even have to do much but endure an uncomfortable public appearance. He doesn't have the power to get much done at all (except try to get re-elected) nor an overt obligation to lead on this (or any other) issue, but he was still held up to us as a viable alternative to Trump. Had he become President, how do you think he would be performing now - or any other of the 15

However much I wanted to vote for "A Man for All Seasons", there wasn't one on the ballot

Oh, come on. Let's not have the old, "if anyone says Trump is doing one thing wrong, we say they're saying that Trump does everything wrong."

That's not what's going on here.

It's okay if Trump gets some things wrong. But I would like his ardent supporters to call him on it. Write him. Idunno. Whatever. Let him know you don't support him on this one. All the bull**** the press pushes him on, shames him, etcetera, it doesn't phase him because he knows that there aren't many things he can do that would cause you to drop your support for him. Just let him know that this is one of those things.