Crown Point Gun Show Protest

[Hawkeye]

"One of the changes scheduled to take place, starting with the next show is that we will have an ATF agent present to verify the legality of all the purchases. To my knowledge that hasn't been done before."

Sounds like the agent is going to be pretty busy!

 

[walt o]

You do understand that universal background checks would prohibit ,Personal sales ,family transfers,gifts ? You would have to go through a F.F.L whenever a gun is purchased or traded ?

Their have been A.T.F persons and tables set up at the C.P.show before to answer Questions and observe ,On a whole they were very helpful.
Private sales = the loop hole , that is what they want to stop.This is what is in the minds of the ANTI"S as Brian stated this is not a legal loop hole ,just a rallying point for the Antie's

 

[Butch627]

I once saw a straw purchase there and notified the county sheriff. He did nothing, maybe having a ATF guy there would end that BS and keep riff raff away.

 

[Hawkeye]

I once saw a straw purchase there and notified the county sheriff. He did nothing, maybe having a ATF guy there would end that BS and keep riff raff away.

You mean someone purchased some straw at the gunshow?

 

[Brian's Surplus]

I once saw a straw purchase there and notified the county sheriff. He did nothing, maybe having a ATF guy there would end that BS and keep riff raff away.

What did you expect him to do? It's your word against theirs, it's up to the dealer to determine if they believe a straw purchase is taking place. Did you inform the dealer?
The BATFE ALWAYS has agents at the Crown Point Gun Show. They haven't had an information booth in some time there but there is always a presence. Agents at the information booth are NOT there to enforce the law, they are there to answer questions. There will still be enforcement agents present, as there always are.
As far as the "gun show loophole", it doesn't exist. There in no loophole that applies to gun shows. The law applies to gun shows the same way it applies anywhere else. The "loophole" is a myth fabricated by the anti-gun movement and people that don't understand the law.

 

[repeter1977]

What did you expect him to do? It's your word against theirs, it's up to the dealer to determine if they believe a straw purchase is taking place. Did you inform the dealer?
The BATFE ALWAYS has agents at the Crown Point Gun Show. They haven't had an information booth in some time there but there is always a presence. Agents at the information booth are NOT there to enforce the law, they are there to answer questions. There will still be enforcement agents present, as there always are.
As far as the "gun show loophole", it doesn't exist. There in no loophole that applies to gun shows. The law applies to gun shows the same way it applies anywhere else. The "loophole" is a myth fabricated by the anti-gun movement and people that don't understand the law.

Agree. Although besides the post above I'd read about the same with ATF agent going to be there. As stated, that dude will be busy, meanwhile if I were doing a legal person to person, I could go down the street in the McDonald's parking lot. So, yay, more feel good that lasts time and money and accomplishes less than nothing

 

[Xterminator]

They had a anti gun protest at my local courthouse..a whopping 15 or so people. Local TV crew was there, like it was some big rally. I didn't recognize anyone and I live n a small town. Almost like they bus a couple groups around.

 

[Butch627]

What did you expect him to do? It's your word against theirs, it's up to the dealer to determine if they believe a straw purchase is taking place. Did you inform the dealer?
The BATFE ALWAYS has agents at the Crown Point Gun Show. They haven't had an information booth in some time there but there is always a presence. Agents at the information booth are NOT there to enforce the law, they are there to answer questions. There will still be enforcement agents present, as there always are.
As far as the "gun show loophole", it doesn't exist. There in no loophole that applies to gun shows. The law applies to gun shows the same way it applies anywhere else. The "loophole" is a myth fabricated by the anti-gun movement and people that don't understand the law.

It was about 35 ft South of where the Sheriffs sit at the entrance in the center isle on the East side of it. I saw a guy who spoke no English pick up a gun and talk to his friend in a language spoken South of the USA. He then handed a wad of money to his friend who then called the vendor over. I walked over to the Sheriff and told him what I have said her plus a bit more and pointed the two out. I waited for him to come back and was prepared to give a official statement. The Sheriff walked up to them talked for a few seconds checked no ID's and came back and told me there wasn't anything he could do. I looked back at the table and it appeared that the transaction was taking place. The entire thing was rotten. I got the impression that the cop was not stupid just lazy and didn't care, he was very close to retirement age.

 

[Brian's Surplus]

It was about 35 ft South of where the Sheriffs sit at the entrance in the center isle on the East side of it. I saw a guy who spoke no English pick up a gun and talk to his friend in a language spoken South of the USA. He then handed a wad of money to his friend who then called the vendor over. I walked over to the Sheriff and told him what I have said her plus a bit more and pointed the two out. I waited for him to come back and was prepared to give a official statement. The Sheriff walked up to them talked for a few seconds checked no ID's and came back and told me there wasn't anything he could do. I looked back at the table and it appeared that the transaction was taking place. The entire thing was rotten. I got the impression that the cop was not stupid just lazy and didn't care, he was very close to retirement age.

There really isn't anything he could have done. Like I said, it's your word against theirs. If you had spoken to the dealer, it would be at their discretion whether or not to make the sale. I know many dealers that will refuse a sale at the slightest hint of a straw purchase. Without any evidence, there isn't anything the Sheriff's Department can do.

 

[Butch627]

There really isn't anything he could have done. Like I said, it's your word against theirs. If you had spoken to the dealer, it would be at their discretion whether or not to make the sale. I know many dealers that will refuse a sale at the slightest hint of a straw purchase. Without any evidence, there isn't anything the Sheriff's Department can do.

Dealer was a kid in his late 20's and was 100 percent aware of the entire scene as it played out. I was totally willing to follow through in stating that the dealer was aware of things but when the Sheriff showed no interest I felt i had nowhere else to go. If I knew that there were higher authorities there I would have gone to them.

 

[Brian's Surplus]

Dealer was a kid in his late 20's and was 100 percent aware of the entire scene as it played out. I was totally willing to follow through in stating that the dealer was aware of things but when the Sheriff showed no interest I felt i had nowhere else to go. If I knew that there were higher authorities there I would have gone to them.

The way you said that "He then handed a wad of money to his friend who then called the vendor over", it sounded like the dealer was unaware. If they weren't speaking English, I'm not sure how the dealer could be "100 percent aware", but I didn't see it so I don't know. I know most of the dealers there, and that one doesn't sound familiar to me from the description.
Odds are if you present a similar scenario to the BATFE agents at the information booth, you will get a similar response. They have stated that they are not there to enforce the law, just to answer questions.

 

[KLB]

Dealer was a kid in his late 20's and was 100 percent aware of the entire scene as it played out. I was totally willing to follow through in stating that the dealer was aware of things but when the Sheriff showed no interest I felt i had nowhere else to go. If I knew that there were higher authorities there I would have gone to them.

Was there a background check done?

 

[Butch627]

Was there a background check done?

The reason I was at the North end of the show is that I was getting ready to leave so once I saw that LE had no interest in my concerns I just left. According to Brians Surplus there is nothing anyone could have done anyway.

 

[G192127]

It sounds to me like a guy bought a gun using an interpreter because he couldn't speak the language .is that illegal?

 

[Ericpwp]

If the interpreter passed the background check... then yes.

 

[Brian's Surplus]

It sounds to me like a guy bought a gun using an interpreter because he couldn't speak the language .is that illegal?

It's legal to use an interpreter to answer questions, NOT to fill out a 4473. The make a Spanish version of the 4473 form for instances such as that.
Dealers have the right and the responsibility to refuse a sale if the believe the purchaser is lying on the 4473 form.

 

[Hawkeye]

If the interpreter passed the background check... then yes.

I'd agree. no way of telling from Butch627's posts.

 

[Brian's Surplus]

If the interpreter passed the background check... then yes.

Even if the interpreter passed a background check, they wouldn't be the "actual purchaser of the firearm", so they would be lying on a Federal document. My understanding is that the ONLY exception to that is a parent buying a firearm for their son or daughter.

 

[printcraft]

This is my favorite part of the article

"but there is nothing in the law to prevent a private buyer from acting as a straw man buyer and turning around and selling the gun to someone else who cannot pass a background check"

I just wish they would pass a law against murder. That would stop all of this bloodshed in it's tracks... of course it wouldn't stop attempted murder, we would need a separate law for that.

Holy crap, what a moron. It's PRECISELY the law.

 

[KLB]

If the interpreter passed the background check... then yes.

IF there was one. Seems we don't know.