Cuban Flag, "Confederate" Flag Comparison?

[jamil]

Lost causers gonna lost cause.

...and that's a decent definition of a "coup", but not a "civil war"....not that what anyone calls it changes anything.

There's no required cause in a civil war. It's simply a war between factions within the same political entity. If definitions don't suit, I guess we can just make them up.

 

[BigRed]

Lost causers gonna lost cause.

...and that's a decent definition of a "coup", but not a "civil war"....not that what anyone calls it changes anything.

Damned blue scum belly yankees.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Damned blue scum belly yankees.

They're all dead, I believe.

 

[HoughMade]

They're all dead, I believe.

Y'know, sometimes people say I​ live in the past.

 

[printcraft]

They're all dead, I believe.

Everyone from that time period is...... Sooooo, can we close the book on it?

 

[jamil]

Everyone from that time period is...... Sooooo, can we close the book on it?

Societally, no. We can't close the books on events where the players are long dead. There's too much class guilt to resolve.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Societally, no. We can't close the books on events where the players are long dead. There's too much class guilt to resolve.

...and pride in treason.

 

[Fargo]

Everyone from that time period is...... Sooooo, can we close the book on it?

Well, if the war had actually resolved the issue and other races/peoples were no longer considered inferior/subhuman after it, I suppose we could close the book.

Instead, the U.S. moved full steam ahead into what would become Jim Crow, as well as new uses for the Union Army as regarded expanded Indian killing and treaty breaking, the Know-Nothings, and the Klan.

Probably the biggest thing that frustrates me about the gross oversimplification of the causes of the Civil War to nothing but "slavery", is that people act like because so many people died and so much was lost it somehow cleansed the blot of chattel slavery and racism in this country. That attitude makes it easier to ignore that the north was largely comprised of White Supremacists as well as the south. It makes it easy to ignore that the freed slaves and other races were treated as inferior or subhuman by the government for over 100 years after the war. In my opinion, it also does a disservice to all of those fought and died ON BOTH SIDES by grossly oversimplifying the varied and complex causes that led to that war into some single black and white issue that many/most of them did not believe in.

 

[printcraft]

Ok, forever then.
If not forever, how many generations are going to drag this out?
And to what end?

 

[Fargo]

Ok, forever then.
If not forever, how many generations are going to drag this out?
And to what end?

There are still a whole lot of people alive who lived through the police brutality and gross injustices of Jim Crow. Their children have first-hand account of how their parents were treated.

I am unsurprised that a whole lot of people don't consider a book closed that was still open and bleeding in living memory.

 

[BigRed]

https://www.amazon.com/Slavery-Was-Cause-Between-States/dp/0985363274

Perhaps worth the read.

 

[jamil]

Intellectually dishonest authors aren’t usually worth the time.

If there were never slavery in the US there would not have been a cause great enough to go to war over.

 

[Kutnupe14]

https://www.amazon.com/Slavery-Was-Cause-Between-States/dp/0985363274

Perhaps worth the read.

Perhaps. A forum dedicated to the Civil War discussed this book.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/sl...n-the-states-the-irrefutable-argument.107841/

 

[Fargo]

Intellectually dishonest authors aren’t usually worth the time.

If there were never slavery in the US there would not have been a cause great enough to go to war over.

The State of South Carolina begs to differ.Remember, it was actively raising an Army until the tariffs were repealed.

 

[jamil]

The State of South Carolina begs to differ.Remember, it was actively raising an Army until the tariffs were repealed.

Yes but how much was posturing to get a better deal, which they got, and how much they were seriously going to war over is for the historians to write about. If there wasn’t an institution of slavery to protect, there would not have been a civil war.

 

[Fargo]

Yes but how much was posturing to get a better deal, which they got, and how much they were seriously going to war over is for the historians to write about. If there wasn’t an institution of slavery to protect, there would not have been a civil war.

I tend to disagree. There was always going to be a huge conflict over whether or not there would be true federal supremacy, or whether the states would rerain sovereignty. I think that we tend to view the early years of this country through some seriously rose colored glasses.

The revolutionary war was fought over taxes, and immediately followed by the crushing of the Whiskey rebellion. The passage of the First Amendment was followed by the alien and sedition acts. The noble ideas of federalism found in the constitution were going to always cause conflict. It’s just human nature.

 

[jamil]

I tend to disagree. There was always going to be a huge conflict over whether or not there would be true federal supremacy, or whether the states would rerain sovereignty. I think that we tend to view the early years of this country through some seriously rose colored glasses.

The revolutionary war was fought over taxes, and immediately followed by the crushing of the Whiskey rebellion. The passage of the First Amendment was followed by the alien and sedition acts. The noble ideas of federalism found in the constitution were going to always cause conflict. It’s just human nature.

I wasn't saying that taxation or whatever else other than slavery wasn't something that two opposing sides wouldn't go to war over. The context of my statement was narrowed to the cause of the Civil War. It was in response to someone posting a Civil War Southern apologist's book. That's just nonsense. I'm saying that there was no other primary cause proximal to the war other than slavery. The tariff thing certainly caused some bad feelings especially in South Carolina, but nothing riled up a Southern aristocrat like talk of ending slavery. The North and South were never going to go to war over the tariff. The tariff wasn't worth bloodshed to the North, South Carolina knew it. When push came to shove, the North caved.

The Southern aristocracy wrapped their defense of the slave industry in noble causes like state's rights, but you look at the legislative history for bills supported by both sides and it's evident neither side really cared about state's rights. Even the cause of the Union was really about Slavery. Sure, it was to prevent the South from succession, but the thing tearing them apart was slavery. The North, no matter what Abe Lincoln said, was never going to give up their position on slavery.

 

[Birds Away]

Let's return to the topic of this thread. Since the leftist media controls the message in this country then, yes, her flag patch simply represents her heritage while your Confederate flag can only mean that you fully support slavery. Similarly, their support of abortion is all about women's rights and not about dead babies while your support of the second amendment means you enjoy seeing dead children in schools. You really should be used to this by now.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Let's return to the topic of this thread. Since the leftist media controls the message in this country then, yes, her flag patch simply represents her heritage while your Confederate flag can only mean that you fully support slavery. Similarly, their support of abortion is all about women's rights and not about dead babies while your support of the second amendment means you enjoy seeing dead children in schools. You really should be used to this by now.

Recent events seem to have debunked this belief.

 

[zaxXxon]

Recent events seem to have debunked this belief.

To which recent events are you referring? I'm looking for some good news.