Trump caves

[BugI02]

Your initial claim--a blanket statement that the founding fathers were isolationist--doesn't hold up. You can keep quoting as much as you like. Your claim is still going to be incorrect.

[STRIKE]Hamilton[/STRIKE], Adams, Franklin, Jay, [STRIKE]Jefferson[/STRIKE], Madison, [STRIKE]Washington[/STRIKE]

Remind me again, which ones were the rabid interventionists?

Don't tell me I'm wrong, prove it

BTW cross off Hamilton, too. Advocate for and co-author of The Proclamation of Neutrality

 

[Hatin Since 87]

[STRIKE]Hamilton[/STRIKE], Adams, Franklin, Jay, [STRIKE]Jefferson[/STRIKE], Madison, [STRIKE]Washington[/STRIKE]

Remind me again, which ones were the rabid interventionists?

Don't tell me I'm wrong, prove it

BTW cross off Hamilton, too. Advocate for and co-author of The Proclamation of Neutrality

Youre wrong. Franklin started the Alamo.

Prove he didnt.

 

[CampingJosh]

Jefferson wasn't afraid of international entanglements, as the Louisiana Purchase showed. He chose to fund Napoleon.

Monroe declared the entirety of the New World as the U.S. for purposes of European colonization.

 

[indyartisan]

Trump- the punisher
https://youtu.be/YrRPH4gpKw0

 

[BugI02]

Youre wrong. Franklin started the Alamo.

Prove he didnt.

You know Alamo is on INGO, right? We can just ask him

Hey, Alamo! Was your dad named Franklin?

 

[BugI02]

Jefferson wasn't afraid of international entanglements, as the Louisiana Purchase showed. He chose to fund Napoleon.

Monroe declared the entirety of the New World as the U.S. for purposes of European colonization.

#239 is a Jefferson quote

 

[CampingJosh]

#239 is a Jefferson quote

That's wonderful. Funding a world war isn't isolationism.

We consistently hear politicians say one thing and then do another.

 

[BugI02]

The list I gave you, while by no means exhaustive, includes men important to and immersed in the creation of The United States. Three were members of the committee of five, that drafted the Declaration; three were authors of The Federalist Papers and the list contains the negotiators of The Treaty of Paris

Monroe was a lesser player on the stage, and a claim of territory or a sphere of influence is not a foreign entanglement like a treaty. In fact telling Europeans to keep out of our 'back yard' is inherently isolationist. I'm not aware of any treaty obligation or entanglement that came with The Louisiana Purchase, other than that the cheque should clear

Perhaps we should settle on a list of just who counts as a 'Founding Father' at some point

 

[Kutnupe14]

[STRIKE]Hamilton[/STRIKE], Adams, Franklin, Jay, [STRIKE]Jefferson[/STRIKE], Madison, [STRIKE]Washington[/STRIKE]

Remind me again, which ones were the rabid interventionists?

Don't tell me I'm wrong, prove it

BTW cross off Hamilton, too. Advocate for and co-author of The Proclamation of Neutrality

You're clear that Camp said "blanket statement," right? That means covering all.

 

[BugI02]

You're clear that Camp said "blanket statement," right? That means covering all.

So who's on your list of Founding Fathers? If you know I'm wrong, then surely you can come up with an example of someone actually important in the founding of America who can be quoted in full-throated cry that we should entangle ourselves in the rivalries of continental powers. I'll wait

 

[CampingJosh]

You're clear that Camp said "blanket statement," right? That means covering all.

Not worth it. It seems he's trying to miss the point.

 

[BugI02]

Sour grapes rather than proving me wrong? Well, that will certainly teach me a lesson

I'm even leaving it up to you to define founding father as you wish, within reason; so long as a cogent argument exists for including them

I'm certain that, having just attained a very narrowly won victory against the British, that the US was virtually awash in influential people insisting that we enmesh ourselves in treaties with the great powers

 

[CampingJosh]

Sour grapes rather than proving me wrong? Well, that will certainly teach me a lesson

I'm even leaving it up to you to define founding father as you wish, within reason; so long as a cogent argument exists for including them

I'm certain that, having just attained a very narrowly won victory against the British, that the US was virtually awash in influential people insisting that we enmesh ourselves in treaties with the great powers

I gave two. You politely ignored them.

Monroe was a founding father by any standard.

I've already done what you are still asking for. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

 

[Kutnupe14]

So who's on your list of Founding Fathers? If you know I'm wrong, then surely you can come up with an example of someone actually important in the founding of America who can be quoted in full-throated cry that we should entangle ourselves in the rivalries of continental powers. I'll wait

Isolationist beliefs isn't solely confined to avoiding the "rivalries of continental powers." For some reason people always seem to tie the idea of to warfare/conflicts/strife. But to address the the question, as you understand it, noting this person has been previously mentioned, James Monroe. His full throated cry being the Monroe Doctrine.

 

[BugI02]

From The Encyclopedia of American Foreign Policy, 2nd Ed

Events during and after the Revolution related to the treaty of alliance with France, as well as difficulties arising over the neutrality policy pursued during the French revolutionary wars and the Napoleonic wars, encouraged another perspective. A desire for separateness and unilateral freedom of action merged with national pride and a sense of continental safety to foster the policy of isolation. Although the United States maintained diplomatic relations and economic contacts abroad, it sought to restrict these as narrowly as possible in order to retain its independence. The Department of State continually rejected proposals for joint cooperation, a policy made explicit in the Monroe Doctrine's emphasis on unilateral action. Not until 1863 did an American delegate attend an international conference. Even so, Secretary of State William H. Seward reflected prevailing views by refusing to sign an 1864 multilateral treaty related to the Red Cross. The United States did not subscribe to such a convention until 1882. Thereafter, cooperation on economic and social matters seemed acceptable, but political issues, especially those involving Europe, were generally avoided until the end of the century.

 

[cbhausen]

I thought this thread was “Trump Caves”...

 

[BugI02]

Less filling!

 

[bwframe]

Tastes Great!

 

[churchmouse]

I thought this thread was “Trump Caves”...

Yeah me too but there are no rocks being thrown yet so let the kids play.....

 

[CampingJosh]

Yeah me too but there are no rocks being thrown yet so let the kids play.....

Were we at a table together, I think that we would have been on the same page long ago. Sometimes it just takes longer and seems more adversarial when we're typing. But if BugI02 were in town, he (at least, I think "he") would be welcome in my home. As would most of you all.