Cop orders man to put legal OC gun on ground. Kills him when he tries to comply.

[Sigblitz]

Polish Shepherd...

 

[Cameramonkey]

I was told to never touch my gun in public.

That too.

he beat me to it. Dog is thinking "if he finds out about my mom's side were Goldsteins, I'm toast!"

 

[CPT Nervous]

I'm saying that everything that the man did that was shown in the video was lawful. I thought my words were clear the first time.

Lawful, in the sense that there isn't a specific statute which prohibits that activity? Maybe. Doesn't make the shooting any less justified.

The suspect's actions at the time of the shooting were furtive and non-compliant. The officer did what any reasonable officer in the same situation would have done. The suspect did not do what any reasonable person in the same situation would have done.

 

[Denny347]

Some of you have never been berated/shouted at/criticized by multiple armed officers at the same time for lawful activity and it shows.

What lawful activity applies to this incident?

All i see is denny either failing to see that i posted a simple answer to a question or trying to get a reaction from me with his comments. My question back to him was pretty tame.

Again, seriously?

You were not posting a simple answer to anything. Your original post implies that the guy who was shot after having done nothing wrong. I don't condone the 2 officers giving orders. 1 voice is always best. However, they were NOT contradicting each other, they were saying the same thing, so I'm not overly concerned with it. Your original statement is one you were involved in personally correct? If that is correct, I am sorry that happened to you but that has nothing to do with this. This thread is here to judge the officer's actions in the video. Contrary to many assertions already made here, there is not enough information to make a determination. If I was at work and asked to render an opinion on the reasonableness of the UoF, there is no way I could based SOLELY on the video clip we have. How could anyone else?

 

[Denny347]

What an argument over two screaming idiots and one silent idiot.

Police UoF is a hot button topic. This "argument" isn't heated or anything but people do take firm stances.

 

[chipbennett]

Everything that the man did that was shown on the video was lawful.

And that is relevant... why, exactly?

 

[chipbennett]

I'm saying that everything that the man did that was shown in the video was lawful. I thought my words were clear the first time.

Sure, your comments were clear. They also represent ex hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy. Franklin was not, in fact, being yelled at for the behaviors or actions seen on the video.

 

[chipbennett]

If a cop tells you to jump off a bridge, is it illegal to disobey?

I think it's OK to pile onto a cop. I don't think anyone here is generalizing all cops. As we've seen, both people involved could have done things differently.

So, failing to comply... I think that depends on the demand being reasonable. One might argue that being told to touch your gun isn't exactly reasonable.

Being told to jump off a bridge (barring certain edge-case scenarios that are the exception proving the rule) is neither reasonable nor lawful.

Franklin wasn't told to touch his gun; he was told to drop his gun. So, one arguing that being told to touch one's gun isn't exactly reasonable is a bit of a non sequitur. If his gun wasn't in his hand, the easiest way to show compliance would be to show his hands. He also could have opted to speak to the officers, communicating his quandary, instead of saying, "I heard you the first time."

 

[ditcherman]

Sure, your comments were clear. They also represent ex hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy. Franklin was not, in fact, being yelled at for the behaviors or actions seen on the video.

i knew I’d get smarter if I kept reading this thread. I was wondering for a bit there though.

 

[Birds Away]

Sure, your comments were clear. They also represent ex hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy. Franklin was not, in fact, being yelled at for the behaviors or actions seen on the video.

For a minute there I thought maybe you needed the Heimlich maneuver or something.

 

[HoughMade]

Is Vox giving lessons in titling threads now? To phrase it in such a way that it is close to being technically true, but gives absolutely no idea of the underlying facts...takes talent.

 

[Birds Away]

Is Vox giving lessons in titling threads now? To phrase it in such a way that it is close to being technically true, but gives absolutely no idea of the underlying facts...takes talent.

Agenda driven = agenda driven.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Personally, I feel the officer shot when he didn't have to.

However, I also didn't hear very good audio of the version I saw. I'd like to know why the hell the guy was squatting down by the door of the car. The officers should have directed him to come out into the clear, raise his hands, and disarmed him themselves. There may be enough here for the cop involved to make a case that he was as the phrase goes... "in fear of his life". Should that happen, you can bet the "bad cop shoots black man" card will be played.

This was bad all the way around. Cops screwed up, and even the dead guy should have know better than to be squatting down there looking like he's hiding something... Yes, I realize he was probably scared as hell.

 

[JettaKnight]

Is Vox giving lessons in titling threads now? To phrase it in such a way that it is close to being technically true, but gives absolutely no idea of the underlying facts...takes talent.

At the risk of piling on, it's ironic because GPIA7R is the king at pointing out journalisms' bad and misleading titles.

 

[HoughMade]

Personally, I feel the officer shot when he didn't have to.

I'm open to that possibility.

...I'd like to know why the hell the guy was squatting down by the door of the car...

Because he was hiding from something...likely the cops, having just threatened an employee in the BK with the gun.

911 calls released in deadly police shooting at Charlotte Burger King

 

[JettaKnight]

Personally, I feel the officer shot when she didn't have to.

It's ma'am!

Wende Kerl is a natural woman.

And I think most would agree, but we weren't there...

 

[chipbennett]

i knew I’d get smarter if I kept reading this thread. I was wondering for a bit there though.

For a minute there I thought maybe you needed the Heimlich maneuver or something.

You guys! I love INGO!

 

[cce1302]

Lawful, in the sense that there isn't a specific statute which prohibits that activity? Maybe. Doesn't make the shooting any less justified.

The suspect's actions at the time of the shooting were furtive and non-compliant. The officer did what any reasonable officer in the same situation would have done. The suspect did not do what any reasonable person in the same situation would have done.

This is precisely where we disagree. Absent a legal prohibition, all things are lawful.

The suspect's actions in the video-freeze, then moving as slowly and deliberately as possible when being screamed at by two strangers threatening his life-are exactly the way a reasonable person acts.

Reminds me a little bit of Randy Weaver. He thought the government was out to get him so he moved to a remote corner of Idaho.

 

[Amishman44]

****. This. *****.

Put her stupid ass in jail.

Facing criticism, CMPD defends release of shorter video from police shooting

So, a man legally carrying outside of restaurant was stopped by police and told to put his gun on the ground, so he reaches towards his holster to get the gun and comply with their orders only to be shot dead for reaching for a weapon. Police hid body cam footage of the incident for months.

Smells of something 'wrong' that needs to be covered-up or someone protected.

The speed which the officer choose to address Mr. Franklin and then choose to shoot...is amazing.

No concern for Mr. Franklin's safety in all if it...

 

[DadSmith]

1st thing he should have done is put his hands up slowly and placed them on car and told them to get it. He acted very suspicious and he did not respond to them verbally that I could tell. He did slowly remove his firearm. In this situation I'd say put hands in air slowly and have them remove it. He had at least 3 weapons pointing at him
It was not a time to be stupid or bullheaded.