Whiskywarrior stand off in NY?

[HoughMade]

Wondering why so many people were primed to believe almost like asking what America did to cause the terrorists to hate us.

It's an interesting thing to consider, but doesn't justify a damned thing.

 

[JettaKnight]

Yeah, I'm kind of pissed at being taken in. People are free to think I'm stupid. What I can't seem to get people to consider is why so many people were ready to believe, and why that is very dangerous

Do people think Gavrilo Princip expected or planned in his wildest dreams what the results of his action would be?

I, for one, think red flag laws will chalk up a few successes but are much more likely to be abused. Post on INGO the Tree of Liberty quote, somebody doxxes you and government moves to confiscate your firearms (for your own good) may seem far fetched in IN but is perfectly believable in NY. Anything that allows extra-judicial proceedings is a nightmare, because pathways exist to acheive the same results; they're just inconvenient for the governments purpose because you have to demonstrate the probable cause first before you take action. How many of us really believe red flag will predominantly be used judiciously and only in emergencies? I am not one of those

It pains me that people are so unread as to willfully believe the Bundy ranch was only about a cheapskate not wanting to pay grazing fees or Malheur was not about forcing people to give up their land so it could be added to a wildlife preserve

Like the quote says "Government Is Like Fire, a Dangerous Servant and a Fearful Master"

You can believe what you want, but personally, I'd like some facts and statistics to go with it.

Otherwise, I see anecdotal situations and confirmation bias being use to start riots. ... same as BLM.

 

[BugI02]

I repeatedly hear on INGO that GOA won't compromise where the NRA will, so wouldn't that make them more extreme, at least in the Mt. Dew sense of the word?

And I don't see how labeling the Proud Boys as far-right could be controversial.


Do you have any issue with the facts as presented, or just an ad hominem attack on the source?

Such a Freudian slip. What I highlighted are not facts

Organizations dedicated to defending my God-given and Constitutional right to self defense will never be 'extreme' whether they be the NRA or the GOA

Traditionally, 'far right' is occupied by Nazis and Fascists. Do you seriously think the Proud Boys qualify for inclusion in that crowd? Does it not concern you to so closely adhere to a worldview that the SPLC would applaud?

 

[BugI02]

Nor is it an attack on Brad to point out his source is biased

I actually hoped someone might want to delve into why the only people following the case appear to be those who want to access its propaganda value. There is room to comment upon how other organizations have lost interest perhaps in proportion to the level of embarassment they feel

But no, you just want to hold our coats after you try and provoke Brad and I. Please note that Mr69 gave an immediate thoughtful and condescension-free reply

 

[Trigger Time]

I repeatedly hear on INGO that GOA won't compromise where the NRA will, so wouldn't that make them more extreme, at least in the Mt. Dew sense of the word?

And I don't see how labeling the Proud Boys as far-right could be controversial.


Do you have any issue with the facts as presented, or just an ad hominem attack on the source?

Ive said before that the NRA should be more in your face. Im tired of gunowners and the fight to preserve the 2nd amendment being so nice and friendly.
I wont use the word extreme because i dont think there is anything extreme about keeping a god given right.
I dont mean violence. I just mean stop taking crap and stand up like a damn man and not act all wimpy like some bun wearing sissy boy. Do i think gun owners need to instill some fear with harsh words but ready to be backed up with action if forced? Yep. And there is nothing wrong with that line of thinking. Our founders told us to think like that. They gave use options and laid them out to us. They lead by example.

But most gun owners are too big of a pansy to even write a damn letter or make a phone call to their elected officials. So how the hell do I think theyll even show up to actually fight to keep their rights? They wont. Others will be the men as usual while they hide with the women and kids.
Not all women will be hiding, but you can see what im saying
Whats extreme is the action of those trying to take it or infringe upon it. They are the radical "terrorists" if you will.
However they are waging a war against the 2md amendment on many fronts. Look at the image people instantly get when someone says they are a gun owner and support the nra or goa and 2nd amendment. Thsy might not admit it but instantly images of militias and right wing terrorists they've seen in movies come to mind.
That is because of intentional propaganda by antigun government insiders and their minions in the private sector.

And MY views are very mild compared to some high profile 2nd amendment celebrities we have out there. They don't hide what they believe needs done in any way.

 

[BugI02]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/what-is-the-oregon-standoff-really-about/
What The Oregon Standoff Is Really About

Yet the federal officials who today preside over the refuge don’t remember or don’t care to recall that it was the ranchers who saved the land from being despoiled. Imbued with what can only be described as an imperialistic impulse, the feds have relentlessly sought to expand the refuge, using every method, legal and illegal, to drive them off the land.


As Ammon Bundy explains on his blog, in the 1970s the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) launched their campaign of conquest: ranchers were informed that grazing was inimical to wildlife and had to be reduced, if not eliminated. Out of a total of 53 permits, 32 were revoked; grazing fees were raised sky-high, and many ranchers were forced to give up their land. The irrigation system they had created and which had attracted birds and other wildlife to the area was appropriated by the refuge. While the original refuge established by Teddy Roosevelt included only Malheur Lake, and neither the rivers whose waters flowed into it nor most of the land surrounding it, today it covers some 187,000 acres, completely surrounding the Hammonds’ ranch.


Those who held on, including the Hammonds, were continually pressured to sell, but the hardscrabble ranchers—who had fought the developers, the state politicians, and the forces of nature to preserve their land and their way of life—were not about to surrender to an army of bureaucrats and the urban elites who ran the environmentalist lobby. Their answer was a firm: no way, no how.


As 1980 rolled around, the feds came up with a new battle plan, taking a leaf from the playbook of the Israelis, who have seized Palestine’s water and dole it out in dribs and drabs to their Palestinian helots. The FWS was keen to acquire privately owned land on the nearby Silvies Plain, so the refuge diverted the water, channeling it into Malheur Lake. Water levels rose, soon doubling, and over 30 ranches on the plain were utterly destroyed: homes, barns, and the verdant pastures on which cows once grazed were under water.


This broke the back of the rancher resistance: most came to the FWS and gave their land away for a song. It wasn’t until 1989 that the waters began to recede. By then the entire plain was in the grasping hands of the refuge.

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...uge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/
Full Story About What’s Going on In Oregon – “Militia” Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution…

Something something petition for redress something

 

[JettaKnight]

Such a Freudian slip. What I highlighted are not facts

Organizations dedicated to defending my God-given and Constitutional right to self defense will never be 'extreme' whether they be the NRA or the GOA

Traditionally, 'far right' is occupied by Nazis and Fascists. Do you seriously think the Proud Boys qualify for inclusion in that crowd? Does it not concern you to so closely adhere to a worldview that the SPLC would applaud?

Yeah, because you ignored the facts in the article and focused exclusively on how they described the GOA and Proud Boys.

Nor is it an attack on Brad to point out his source is biased

Sorry for the confusion, I meant "ad hominem" against the Daily Beast, not Brad.


What's the corporate equivalent of "ad hominem"?

EDIT:

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...uge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/
Full Story About What’s Going on In Oregon – “Militia” Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution…

Something something petition for redress something

You say the Daily Beast is biased (and therefore should be ignored) and then within and hour present something from "The Conservative Treehouse" for consideration?

 

[BugI02]

Wondering why so many people were primed to believe almost like asking what America did to cause the terrorists to hate us.

It's an interesting thing to consider, but doesn't justify a damned thing.

Not trying to justify anything. From the beginning I've just been saying it should be incumbent on anyone (even inadvertently), entering into the powder magazine that is distrust of the motives and methods of some government entities with respect to the second amendment, to exercize care to minimize sparks. Just pointing out that we have several well known cases where 'We are the law and you will do as we say' didn't work out as planned. People want to roll with righteous indignation about the specific person and his crimes, I think they should pay attention to the bigger picture. I gave the example of Princip because cooler heads did not prevail and a relatively unimportant event had extremely outsized consequences. Are we saying 'It can't happen here'?

 

[BugI02]

Ad aedificium?

 

[JettaKnight]

Are we saying 'It can't happen here'?

Not at all.


But several people (Instagram Influencers and the like) are saying it is happening here, when the evidence says it isn't.


And if it is happening somewhere, the answer is not to show up with your AR and bratwurst grill at the suspects home.


Vigilance is key, which is not the same as vigilantism.

Ad aedificium?

Sure, let's go with that.

 

[BugI02]

EDIT:

You say the Daily Beast is biased (and therefore should be ignored) and then within and hour present something from "The Conservative Treehouse" for consideration?

I believe citing The Daily Beast set the rules of engagement. I feel no compunction about responding in kind. There are facts in that article, corroberated by the American Conservative article (which you gloss over/ignore) just like the facts you wanted to point out in the Daily Beast article. Note that the authors of the Malheur articles limit themselves to shining a light on the questionable motives of the representatives of government, and did not feel the need to slander them as child-eating Baal worshippers as they certainly could have under The Daily Beast's ROE

 

[Brad69]

Any word on “Boogaboo” boy?

 

[JettaKnight]

Any word on “Boogaboo” boy?

It's "Boogaloo".

 

[HoughMade]

This may all be old news:

https://heavy.com/news/2019/11/whiskey-warrior-565-alex/

After a six-hour-long standoff, Booth surrendered peacefully. “Negotiators made contact with Mr. Booth and after six hours of discussion they were successful in convincing him to surrender without incident. Thanks to their tireless efforts no civilians or police were harmed,” a press release said.

The Carmel Police Department said that Booth was subsequently arraigned on multiple charges related to incidents connected to a past domestic incident involving his wife. Booth was wanted on a felony warrant issued by Thomas Jacobellis charging him with second-degree burglary, a felony, and several misdemeanors, including criminal trespass, criminal contempt, aggravated harassment and petit larceny. Booth is not facing any charges in relation to the standoff. His arraignment was held at Carmel Town Justice Court.

The press release concludes by saying that no weapons or ammunition were seized from Booth’s home despite “false social media posts to the contrary.” Many on social media believed that Booth was a victim of the Red Flag Law in the state of New York…

The Carmel Town Justice Court only handles misdemeanors so I doubt he is still in jail. Whether he may be in a hospital or treatment facility or not- unknown

 

[Brad69]

JK we need a better code word !

1. “The awakening”

2. “Shenanigans”

 

[T.Lex]

JK we need a better code word !

1. “The awakening”

2. “Shenanigans”

"Red flag."

Wait.

That might get REALLY confusing.

 

[JettaKnight]

“Shenanigans”

Someone pistol whip Brad69!

 

[BugI02]

"Red flag."

Wait.

That might get REALLY confusing.

"Wolverines!"

 

[Usmccookie]

JK we need a better code word !

1. “The awakening”

2. “Shenanigans”

The clone wars?

 

[HoughMade]

No...there has to be something more obscure...."The Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions".