Interesting auction in Indy with lots of surplus guns and WWII items

[Makgizzle187]

Would love to grab one of those remingtongs

 

[kaveman]

Gravel????? Like in Rocks... Like hard rocks.. you know real hard rocks...???

Was the gun damaged???? Did it have any protection..???? Did you verbally trash this guy for that horrible deed???

This was back in the pre-internet days when you bought a gun sight unseen through Shotgun News. With machineguns, you mailed off what seemed like a huge amount of money to someone you'd never heard of before and waited a few months hoping that something would show up. I was happy enough to just have a cardboard box eventually show up. Poured out the rocks and the gun slid out. Yeah, it did have some fresh dings in it, but it was already a 50yr old milsurp so it probably wasn't pristine at the start. Guess I'm verbally trashing the guy now, but I've never actually spoken to him, before or after the deal. Never got a chance really.

(11/10/01 9:16:20 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All Beware Vic's Guns, Elsberry, Missouri
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mr. James Carmi, operator of Vic's Guns is in trouble. You see ads for Vic's Guns in Shotgun News (probably other papers too) selling full auto weapons. It seems that Mr. Carmi went into partnership with Mr. Jeffry Knipp, Police Chief of Farber, Missouri, to produce letters and send them to manufacturer's and distributors to get "Police Department Demo" autos. Mr. Carmi then sold the guns to individuals and other dealers, and gave a kickback to Knipp. BATF seized 800 fully auto weapons from Carmi's home."

Didn't help that he was operating under an alias as a convicted felon. Probably(hopefully)still in the clink. I feel lucky that I received anything at all and thankful that it was a pre-sample instead of a postie as ATF would have come along and collected it from me if it had been.

It's little things like this that allow me to just shake my head when I see someone venting on the forums because of a buggered screw or a scratch on a hundred dollar plinker they've just received, "Yeah. it happens." Or when guys ***** and moan about an NFA transfer that's taking too long. My longest was six years on a dealer-to-dealer form3(turns out the seller,....one of the most well known in the business,....flogged my gun for six years as a rental while claiming to have submitted the paperwork over and over again). Again, just happy to have finally gotten the gun and not lost all my money, even though it went from being 'like new' when I bought it to 'well and truly abused' by the time I received it.

 

[indy1919a4]

This was back in the pre-internet days when you bought a gun sight unseen through Shotgun News. With machineguns, you mailed off what seemed like a huge amount of money to someone you'd never heard of before and waited a few months hoping that something would show up. I was happy enough to just have a cardboard box eventually show up. Poured out the rocks and the gun slid out. Yeah, it did have some fresh dings in it, but it was already a 50yr old milsurp so it probably wasn't pristine at the start. Guess I'm verbally trashing the guy now, but I've never actually spoken to him, before or after the deal. Never got a chance really.

(11/10/01 9:16:20 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All Beware Vic's Guns, Elsberry, Missouri
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mr. James Carmi, operator of Vic's Guns is in trouble. You see ads for Vic's Guns in Shotgun News (probably other papers too) selling full auto weapons. It seems that Mr. Carmi went into partnership with Mr. Jeffry Knipp, Police Chief of Farber, Missouri, to produce letters and send them to manufacturer's and distributors to get "Police Department Demo" autos. Mr. Carmi then sold the guns to individuals and other dealers, and gave a kickback to Knipp. BATF seized 800 fully auto weapons from Carmi's home."

Didn't help that he was operating under an alias as a convicted felon. Probably(hopefully)still in the clink. I feel lucky that I received anything at all and thankful that it was a pre-sample instead of a postie as ATF would have come along and collected it from me if it had been.

It's little things like this that allow me to just shake my head when I see someone venting on the forums because of a buggered screw or a scratch on a hundred dollar plinker they've just received, "Yeah. it happens." Or when guys ***** and moan about an NFA transfer that's taking too long. My longest was six years on a dealer-to-dealer form3(turns out the seller,....one of the most well known in the business,....flogged my gun for six years as a rental while claiming to have submitted the paperwork over and over again). Again, just happy to have finally gotten the gun and not lost all my money, even though it went from being 'like new' when I bought it to 'well and truly abused' by the time I received it.

Ouch, well I feel for you... That being said.... you know I kinda miss shotgun news

 

[DoggyDaddy]

"(11/10/01 9:16:20 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All Beware Vic's Guns, Elsberry, Missouri
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mr. James Carmi, operator of Vic's Guns is in trouble."

Wow, I have some old ammo from Vic's Guns, but that Vic's was out of Galveston, TX. I wonder if it's still the same Vic's Guns? I have some 6.5 Jap and some 7.62x54R.

 

[88E30M50]

That Colt 1911 sold for $1050.

One of the Remington Rands sold for $1300. I don't get it.

I’ve never seen a RR for under $800. What decade was it that you were buying them for $350? My RR is rough and I would not entertain anything less than $800 for it in today’s market.

 

[Thor]

The Colt 1911 was made in 1918 and looks to be unfired after it's RIA refurbishment (there is one like it on Guns International right now going for just shy of six grand); I cleaned cosmoline out of it when I cleaned it last night . The 1989 Krag looks to be unissued, made in 1900, there's a little light mold on the sling but no rust, or cracks in the stock. The Colt M1917 is in better shape than I expected...in fact all the weapons I got were. The broomhandle is a first year production from 1905 and has patina but is solid as a rock looking almost new on the inside. All of the weapons were clean with good bores.

Now I just need to find a date for my L. C. Smith Specialty grade SxS 12ga...SN RE569XXS. The L.C. Smith Collectors association wants you to buy a membership and then pay them $50 before they'll talk to you. A good condition right now is selling for +3G$

 

[Thor]

What decade was it that you were buying them for $350?

A good question. If it was this one it was most likely a personal purchase from someone who didn't know what it was worth. If it was from an LGS please tell us where...but if so they are probably out of business now anyway.

 

[kaveman]

Caught mention of another RR that sold at an east coast auction over the weekend for $1800. Guys seemed to think that was high too, but at least two bidders were willing to go up to that level. I think some people need to re-evaluate their pricing now that CMP has set a bottom limit on 1911 prices for people willing to jump through all the hoops. Most people aren't willing to do that so they'll be shopping from a very small and intermittent market.

 

[Thor]

This is the base line pricing set by the CMP for their 1911's.

CMP has priced the 1911 type pistols at fair market value in accordance with CMP’s enabling legislation.



Service Grade $1,050. Pistol may exhibit minor pitting and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition.



Field Grade $950. Pistol may exhibit minor rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition.



Rack Grade $850. Pistol will exhibit rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips may be incomplete and exhibit cracks. Pistol requires minor work to return to issuable condition.

And that's with lots of hoops to jump through and waiting to be done with no real choice over the weapon you receive. I'd been wanting one since I carried them in the Army for nostalgia as much as just a 1911 from a current manufacturer; I think I got a good deal on the Colt since it is better than the Service Grade description.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

So you were there too Thor? Dang, we INGO people shoulda made name tags or something! That makes at least 5 of us that were there in person (You, me, KellyInAvon, rob63 and indy1919a4). You got a good deal on that Krag if I remember correctly. Love Krags but all I have is one that was cut down into carbine configuration (technically sporterized but "looks" pretty much like a true carbine). That action is just so darned smooth. I was hoping to get one of the Jap type 38 carbines but I had to resist what with holiday spending and other recent gun purchases. I was happy to get my FEG .32 though.

 

[KellyinAvon]

The Colt 1911 was made in 1918 and looks to be unfired after it's RIA refurbishment (there is one like it on Guns International right now going for just shy of six grand); I cleaned cosmoline out of it when I cleaned it last night . The 1989 Krag looks to be unissued, made in 1900, there's a little light mold on the sling but no rust, or cracks in the stock. The Colt M1917 is in better shape than I expected...in fact all the weapons I got were. The broomhandle is a first year production from 1905 and has patina but is solid as a rock looking almost new on the inside. All of the weapons were clean with good bores.

Now I just need to find a date for my L. C. Smith Specialty grade SxS 12ga...SN RE569XXS. The L.C. Smith Collectors association wants you to buy a membership and then pay them $50 before they'll talk to you. A good condition right now is selling for +3G$

I thought the 1911 Colt was the steal of the day.

 

[Thor]

So you were there too Thor?

Well, I was there in spirit, I was watching you all on the interwebs. Drove down yesterday to pick up my haul. I would like to have been there for the Friday looksie as well but with a 4+hr round trip I wanted to know if I was going to win something before making the trip. Then again, maybe it was better I didn't because (SWMBO was impressed enough with me as it was) I'd really have liked to have taken a look at that Pleizur Mauser.

The Krag was a good price...I showed considerable restraint by not hitting the +bid button and not getting everything I bid on. A number of the items I did win went for my max bid.

 

[Thor]

I thought the 1911 Colt was the steal of the day.

Sometimes even a blind squirrel...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Well, I was there in spirit, I was watching you all on the interwebs. Drove down yesterday to pick up my haul. I would like to have been there for the Friday looksie as well but with a 4+hr round trip I wanted to know if I was going to win something before making the trip. Then again, maybe it was better I didn't because (SWMBO was impressed enough with me as it was) I'd really have liked to have taken a look at that Pleizur Mauser.

The Krag was a good price...I showed considerable restraint by not hitting the +bid button and not getting everything I bid on. A number of the items I did win went for my max bid.

Oh okay, I didn't realize you were bidding online. I didn't stay for the whole thing. Had an early Christmas with the grandkids to get back to. Took the grandson and he was pretty bored. He said, "Papaw, gun shows are a lot more fun than gun auctions." I can't really blame him. Standing around watching a bunch of old codgers waiting for their lot to come up to bid on probably wasn't too exciting for an 11 year old.

That sporting Mauser was a really neat gun, despite the scope looking kinda rough (although it looked to be in good working order). I would've liked to have known what caliber it was at least. If only I was born rich instead of so good looking... *sigh*

 

[Leadeye]

For you fans of old 45 caliber Colt DA Army revolvers. The 1878/1902 in 45 lc, the 1909 New Service in 45 lc, and the 1917 New Service in 45 ACP.

 

[thompal]

I’ve never seen a RR for under $800. What decade was it that you were buying them for $350? My RR is rough and I would not entertain anything less than $800 for it in today’s market.

Well, my most recent was almost 10 years ago. I was at a guy's house to buy a guitar, and saw a 1911A1 on his desk, so we got talking about guns. I offered him $350 for it, and he took it.

My other one was about 15 or so years ago, and I got it for $225.

I sold a pristine Colt 1911A1 about 6 years ago for $600.

 

[cerebus85]

So i thought i did okay. I snagged the Hitler Youth Knife for 270 and some other items. I picked up a P38 and M1 Carbine. The Carbine is pretty slick looking. My only gribe was that I bid online. As i'd click the bid but it would give a busy like signal and then poof! Come to find out it registered a bid 100.00 dollars higher.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Well, I was there in spirit, I was watching you all on the interwebs. Drove down yesterday to pick up my haul. I would like to have been there for the Friday looksie as well but with a 4+hr round trip I wanted to know if I was going to win something before making the trip. Then again, maybe it was better I didn't because (SWMBO was impressed enough with me as it was) I'd really have liked to have taken a look at that Pleizur Mauser.

The Krag was a good price...I showed considerable restraint by not hitting the +bid button and not getting everything I bid on. A number of the items I did win went for my max bid.

On the big screen we saw the pics of the gun, lot number, number of lots to go, current high bid and next bid. When on online bidder had high bid it showed the bidder number and city/state. You saw a room full of old dudes with beards?

 

[thompal]

So i thought i did okay. I snagged the Hitler Youth Knife for 270 and some other items. I picked up a P38 and M1 Carbine. The Carbine is pretty slick looking. My only gribe was that I bid online. As i'd click the bid but it would give a busy like signal and then poof! Come to find out it registered a bid 100.00 dollars higher.

I did alright too. I got 4 items, and all of them for less than my maximum bid, so I was pretty happy.

I bid on 3 others that I didn't win, and they all ended up going for 3 times my maximum bid, so I'm glad I didn't chase those.

 

[Thor]

Chasing in an auction is never a good idea. Know what you want and what it is worth to you and just stop. Anything else is just either too great a desire or machismo.

I did okay on this one; came out with 7 pistols, 3 shotguns and a rifle...all that I wanted (not all that I bid on ...or even some of the ones I really wanted but they came at too big a price eventually).