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Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
New BATF ruling on stabilizing braces today
- Thread starter Mr. Blenderson
- Start date
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Some of us handed them off to non gun owning family until it gets sorted out. Or our lawyers, etc.
nonobaddog
Grandmaster
Right!
Don't reply if you like your dog.
Or both.
Stormtroopers Now Deadly Accurate After Adding Pistol Braces To All Their Blasters
CORUSCANT — Emperor Palpatine was said to be very pleased with the latest ballistics report on stormtrooper marksmanship, as the Imperial Army's collective accuracy percentage improved dramatically after adding pistol braces to all blasters.
babylonbee.com
AndreusMaximus
Master
IANAL, but yes. However, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they decide it's "constructive possession" to have a 16" rifle with a pistol brace and at the same time own a pistol-length upper.
That makes sense. Thanks!
Yes . . . it's legal . . . presuming the 16" is barrel length (and total firearm length with 16" barrel is 26" or longer).
If someone has two uppers, and one lower, and a pistol brace:
- one upper with a 16" or longer barrel
- the other upper with a barrel under 16"
- a "pistol" lower (one that started life as a pistol, not as a rifle)
- one or more pistol braces or rifle stocks
The Rule of Lenity applies in this combination of major parts. It's not just hypothetical conjecture. The 1992 United States v. Thompson/Center SCOTUS decision was about possession of this exact kind of combination of major firearm components. Beginning in the late 1980's, Thompson/Center was making and selling their Contender Pistol and Carbine Kit with:
- pistol frame
- two barrels, one under 16" and one over 16"
- detachable shoulder stock
United States v. Thompson/Center SCOTUS, 1992:
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/112745/united-states-v-thompsoncenter-arms-co/
Wikipedia has a good article on the U.S. v. Thompson/Center case:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson-Center_Arms_Co.
Bottom Line:
Don't have the short barrel upper attached to the pistol lower with a pistol brace or rifle stock on it when BATFE comes to kill your dog and burn your house down. Always remove the brace/stock from the lower before putting the short barrel upper on it. Note also that the lower receiver MUST begin life as a pistol lower, NOT as a rifle lower. In other words, you cannot make a pistol from a firearm that started its life as a rifle. Later, if one puts a long barrel and rifle stock onto a firearm that started life as a pistol, it does NOT permanently create a rifle, and it can be reverted back to its pistol configuration (contrary to what I've seen stated elsewhere; if this were not the case, a Contender Kit could never be reconfigured back into a pistol).
Those who are members of FPC, SAF and GOA are currently covered by a 5th Circuit Preliminary Injunction regarding pistol braces pending a hearing on July 29th, which will decide whether or not to continue that injunction, and in what form if it does. That means the injunction could change or go away. I anticipate a decision and opinion from 5th Circuit regarding the current injunction to be issued some time in the first half of August. Regarding rifle stocks . . . never put one on a pistol unless it's an NFA registered SBR! For those that don't want to live on the edge, wait until there's finality to the constitutionality of the Pistol Brace Rule (which I'm personally confident will eventually bite the dust).
This may seem bizarre and crazy, but that's the way it is. A 4473 has three check boxes for "Category of Firearm": Handgun, Long Gun, and Other. If the original 4473 states the frame/receiver is a "Handgun" or "Other" (the latter proper for a stripped frame/receiver), it's not a rifle (or shotgun). If the original 4473 states the frame/receiver is a "Long Gun", it's a rifle (or shotgun) and will always be one forever and ever to the end of time, and it can never be legally remade into a handgun without first having an SBR tax stamp. This distinction is very important when making a complete firearm from a stripped frame/receiver. Even though it's an "Other" on the original 4473, it hasn't been born yet as a handgun or a long gun. Thus, if you want to have the option of flipping it between pistol and rifle configurations, build it first as a handgun and, very important, document that. BATFE will (or should) always use the original 4473, not a later one if it's resold as a used firearm by an FFL.
Thompson/Center Contender and Encore Kits:
Thompson/Center continued to sell its Contender Pistol and Carbine Kits, later creating a "Contender G2" version, and has (or had) a second, similar line most aptly called the Encore. Smith & Wesson bought Thompson/Center in 2007. They closed the Rochester, NH plant and moved to Springfield, MA (home of S&W) in 2010. Until recently Thompson/Center still showed their Contender and Encore lines on a Thompson/Center website. That website is currently just a shell with a main page and all links lead from there to Smith & Wesson. I don't know what the future is for Thompson/Center. S&W took a beating circa 2017 - 2018 with a number of high profile shootings using their firearms. However, sites like GunBroker continue to carry their Contender and Encore kits.
DISCLAIMER:
I AM NOT A LAWYER. Read this information carefully and use as you wish. I've provided it to educate everyone about this landmark 1992 SCOTUS decision. U.S. v. Thompson/Center is the SCOTUS decision that introduced the Rule of Lenity concept and setting aside Chevron Deference (in major part) regarding Executive Branch Agency Rulemaking that impose criminal penalties.
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Okay I guess you can use any buffer tube you want as long as it doesn't have a stock or brace on it. Or am I missing it completely?
www.smga.com
www.smga.com
This looks like a standard multi position carbine tube to me.
Apf-15 556 10.5`` Bbl Sb Tactical
APF Pistol Semi-automatic 223Rem/5.56 NATO 10.5" Barrel 1:7 Twist Black Finish Single Stage Mil-Spec Trigger APF 9" MLOK Handguard 30Rd 1 Magazine
M4-22 Elite Pistol
The M4-22 Elite Pistol is a premium .22 caliber semi-automatic AR styled pistol with aluminum upper and lower receivers and all the features of a true M4 pistol. The Elite Pistol features the T5 Armbrace, 11 inch barrel, 9" aluminum M-Lok handguard and weighs only 4.6 lbs. Features and...
This looks like a standard multi position carbine tube to me.
Okay I guess you can use any buffer tube you want as long as it doesn't have a stock or brace on it. Or am I missing it completely?
Apf-15 556 10.5`` Bbl Sb Tactical
APF Pistol Semi-automatic 223Rem/5.56 NATO 10.5" Barrel 1:7 Twist Black Finish Single Stage Mil-Spec Trigger APF 9" MLOK Handguard 30Rd 1 Magazine
View attachment 287759
M4-22 Elite Pistol
The M4-22 Elite Pistol is a premium .22 caliber semi-automatic AR styled pistol with aluminum upper and lower receivers and all the features of a true M4 pistol. The Elite Pistol features the T5 Armbrace, 11 inch barrel, 9" aluminum M-Lok handguard and weighs only 4.6 lbs. Features and...
View attachment 287763
This looks like a standard multi position carbine tube to me.
Seems like that would fall into "readily accept".
Also known as a SBR without a stock.Seems like that would fall into "readily accept".
So how are they selling these as pistols?
He said it's known as an SBR without the stock. So kind of confusing.
So any carbine buffer tube works for a pistol then?
It doesn't come with a brace attached... in compliance with this "rule".
I'm guessing they are counting on it being the same as if you remove a previously attached brace from a pistol.
But I think the confusion is that this appears to be a rifle tube, not a pistol tube. None of my pistols had a tube like that. But all my rifles do.
I'd expect a rifle tube to be counted as a rifle part, not a pistol part. So if I was a JBT, I'd just argue you have an NFA item since its all "rifle" parts and it readily accepts a rifle stock. A pistol with a pistol tube would not be a rifle because it couldnt readily accept a rifle stock.
But what do I know? As arbitrary as the rules are, its possible its a pistol. They seem to not follow logic at all.
EDIT: I wonder if somebody is being lazy and just calling it a pistol without a brace and just throwing any old tube on them?
But I think the confusion is that this appears to be a rifle tube, not a pistol tube. None of my pistols had a tube like that. But all my rifles do.
I'd expect a rifle tube to be counted as a rifle part, not a pistol part. So if I was a JBT, I'd just argue you have an NFA item since its all "rifle" parts and it readily accepts a rifle stock. A pistol with a pistol tube would not be a rifle because it couldnt readily accept a rifle stock.
But what do I know? As arbitrary as the rules are, its possible its a pistol. They seem to not follow logic at all.
EDIT: I wonder if somebody is being lazy and just calling it a pistol without a brace and just throwing any old tube on them?
They probably have a shelf full of standard tubes that they are using up, and since no brace, no foul.
But I wouldn't count on that working with the dog shooting brigade.
Okay I guess you can use any buffer tube you want as long as it doesn't have a stock or brace on it. Or am I missing it completely?
Apf-15 556 10.5`` Bbl Sb Tactical
APF Pistol Semi-automatic 223Rem/5.56 NATO 10.5" Barrel 1:7 Twist Black Finish Single Stage Mil-Spec Trigger APF 9" MLOK Handguard 30Rd 1 Magazine
View attachment 287759
M4-22 Elite Pistol
The M4-22 Elite Pistol is a premium .22 caliber semi-automatic AR styled pistol with aluminum upper and lower receivers and all the features of a true M4 pistol. The Elite Pistol features the T5 Armbrace, 11 inch barrel, 9" aluminum M-Lok handguard and weighs only 4.6 lbs. Features and...
View attachment 287763
This looks like a standard multi position carbine tube to me.
Simple Answer: Yes.
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