Rise of remote work

[wtburnette]

How about this perspective:

Any job that can be done from home can be done by an Indian teenager for 10% of pay and no benefits.

There are a lot of things that prove that to be a very risky proposition. Certain things can be done outside of the US. Even those things (tech support, customer service) will give your company a black eye with customers. A lot of companies that have outsourced have found issues with that model and found they didn't save as much as they thought they would.

I'm in a field where it's not done (much). It's really, really stupid to outsource your Information Security team. Especially to a country like India where they're well known for stealing data.

 

[Vodnik4]

There are a lot of things that prove that to be a very risky proposition. Certain things can be done outside of the US. Even those things (tech support, customer service) will give your company a black eye with customers. A lot of companies that have outsourced have found issues with that model and found they didn't save as much as they thought they would.

I'm in a field where it's not done (much). It's really, really stupid to outsource your Information Security team. Especially to a country like India where they're well known for stealing data.

You know it’s stupid to do that, I know it’s stupid to do that, but the top brass only sees “10% of pay”, and how much that will increase the stock price.
In another thread people were telling stories about layoffs because “the street” wants it.

 

[KLB]

How about this perspective:

(Almost) Any job that can be done from home can be done by an Indian teenager for 10% of pay and no benefits.

It has as much truth as any job in a manufacturing facility can be replaced by a robot.

 

[firecadet613]

I've always been a "field" employee. My office is at home or in my company car.

I was at our main office last week and blown away by how much "water cooler talk" goes on!

One of the girls I wanted to stop by and say hi to had just gotten back from vacation...and she was working from home that day to be more productive and get caught up!

 

[WebSnyper]

How about this perspective:

(Almost) Any job that can be done from home can be done by an Indian teenager for 10% of pay and no benefits.

Have you worked with that population (Indian teenager) much? I've worked with a lot of offshore. Some are great, many not so much, especially from the lowest bidder.

 

[WebSnyper]

You know it’s stupid to do that, I know it’s stupid to do that, but the top brass only sees “10% of pay”, and how much that will increase the stock price.
In another thread people were telling stories about layoffs because “the street” wants it.

CISOs in most recent days are looking to augment their trusted staff with AI, more than outsourcing it to cheap bodies overseas. And no, AI won't replace (at least yet), but will help guide quite a bit in the infosec space.

 

[WebSnyper]

I've always been a "field" employee. My office is at home or in my company car.

I was at our main office last week and blown away by how much "water cooler talk" goes on!

One of the girls I wanted to stop by and say hi to had just gotten back from vacation...and she was working from home that day to be more productive and get caught up!

Right there with you on this one of being a "field" employee. Wherever I am at is my office.

 

[Ingomike]

I see this from both sides and there is no right or wrong answer.

I suspect it breaks down to fairly simple math for many organizations. Out of 100 employees 20% are highly productive, 40% are productive and 40% are there but would be replaced if they could get better replacements. Send them work from home and the highly productive likely get more productive, but not enough to replace the losses of the lower 40% that need constant attention and supervision.

Companies struggle with employee relationships and allowing some to WFH and others not impacts team relations. Easier to have a one size fits all set to keep the lowest common denominator employee productive. The fact that badges had to be hidden so other employees would not be jealous is just an indication of this.

Managers are often blamed here and I personally have had some doozies, but finding highly productive employees is very difficult and it is not uncommon that the production needed requires the lower productivity employees to produce.

The threats of productive employees to leave are not that concerning because while the 20% are great they only produce 30% and the company must get 70% of the production from the lesser employees so work rules will always be directed at getting that 70% and the company will try to placate the top 20% as best they can.

If one could imagine a ten horse team and two of the horses were racing thoroughbreds, team goals and management would be to get the other eight to produce, but I suspect the race horses would sound like some of the posts here.

Disclosure: All percentages were from experience…

 

[wtburnette]

I see this from both sides and there is no right or wrong answer.

I suspect it breaks down to fairly simple math for many organizations. Out of 100 employees 20% are highly productive, 40% are productive and 40% are there but would be replaced if they could get better replacements. Send them work from home and the highly productive likely get more productive, but not enough to replace the losses of the lower 40% that need constant attention and supervision.

Companies struggle with employee relationships and allowing some to WFH and others not impacts team relations. Easier to have a one size fits all set to keep the lowest common denominator employee productive. The fact that badges had to be hidden so other employees would not be jealous is just an indication of this.

Managers are often blamed here and I personally have had some doozies, but finding highly productive employees is very difficult and it is not uncommon that the production needed requires the lower productivity employees to produce.

The threats of productive employees to leave are not that concerning because while the 20% are great they only produce 30% and the company must get 70% of the production from the lesser employees so work rules will always be directed at getting that 70% and the company will try to placate the top 20% as best they can.

If one could imagine a ten horse team and two of the horses were racing thoroughbreds, team goals and management would be to get the other eight to produce, but I suspect the race horses would sound like some of the posts here.

Disclosure: All percentages were from experience…

Part of that is also needing to have a reality check. Are those non-productive workers actually productive in the office? That's where we're at. The members of my team that aren't as productive as the most productive team members, are not any less productive from home than they were in the office. I can remember 25 years ago reading all kinds of articles talking about the amount of time wasted at work and that hasn't gone away and if anything has gotten worse. It's no joke that I can get much more work done while working from home than I ever did in the office.

Part of the problem nowadays is two fold. First managers are overloaded with stuff they're expected to do, so much so that managing their employees becomes a low priority. Add to that it's really hard, at least in bigger organizations, to fire or discipline a problem employee, especially if they are female and/or a minority.

 

[Twangbanger]

Companies are colluding on the timing of "return to office." The street does indeed want cuts, now that the market is tight again, and this will be the first fall in a few years where a normal "team strengthening layoff" season will occur. They want to stimulate a small, controlled departure of people to reduce worker rolls, and need to get people back in the office first to simplify getting their electronic assets back.

In other words...SS / different year.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Today was my "in office" day and I got MUCH less done than I would have from home. For one thing, I started an hour and a half later (part of that was the commute). For another, for whatever reason, it takes my computer about 5x as long to boot up and to sign in to everything in the office as it does at home. Seems counterintuitive since I'm on the network in the office but over a (wireless) VPN from home, but it is what it is. Also, there are only 3 of us in our area, separate from the rest of the team, which is usually nice, but today a group of team members came over to chat it up (not work-related) with the other 2 (women) right next to me, so that was a distraction. They also scheduled a one hour mandatory training session (worthless). I'm glad next Monday is a holiday.

 

[Mij]

Today was my "in office" day and I got MUCH less done than I would have from home. For one thing, I started an hour and a half later (part of that was the commute). For another, for whatever reason, it takes my computer about 5x as long to boot up and to sign in to everything in the office as it does at home. Seems counterintuitive since I'm on the network in the office but over a (wireless) VPN from home, but it is what it is. Also, there are only 3 of us in our area, separate from the rest of the team, which is usually nice, but today a group of team members came over to chat it up (not work-related) with the other 2 (women) right next to me, so that was a distraction. They also scheduled a one hour mandatory training session (worthless). I'm glad next Monday is a holiday.

Exactly, Fri was my office day. By the time I got booted up and the network got all the updates done, after signing in it was mandatory break time. Then mandatory lunch. 7 1/2 hr. work days. Then afternoon break. And it’s Fri. everyone bailed out after lunch, no one to give reports or data too. A total complete waste of time. Could have driven my 4 wheeled office home and e-mailed the reports.

 

[Mij]

How about this perspective:

(Almost) Any job that can be done from home can be done by an Indian teenager for 10% of pay and no benefits.

After last week I’d like to hire about 6 of those guys, and I’ll pay them 10% more per hr. than I make. I’ve still got about two weeks left.

 

[bwframe]

New ‘coffee badging’ job trend has some business leaders on high alert

As more firms call employees back into the office, some workers are expressing their clear distaste.

nypost.com

...What is ‘coffee badging’? ​

As some employees are being called back to the office, many are subtly protesting by returning to the office for as little time as possible, Frank Weishaupt, CEO of Owl Labs in Boston, told FOX Business.

“Coffee badging is when employees show up to the office for enough time to have a cup of coffee, show their face and get a ‘badge swipe’ — then go home to do the rest of their work,” said Weishaupt....

 

[model1994]

20pages, I’ll have to read thru this thread when I have a bit.

My formerly-remote position was transitioned back to site, so Jan 2nd will be my final day because I now have an elderly dependent (grandpa) and need a wfh role for his care. man, im hoping 2024 is a better year.

 

[wtburnette]

20pages, I’ll have to read thru this thread when I have a bit.

My formerly-remote position was transitioned back to site, so Jan 2nd will be my final day because I now have an elderly dependent (grandpa) and need a wfh role for his care. man, im hoping 2024 is a better year.

Sorry to hear that. Best wishes for 2024.

What type of job do you do?

 

[model1994]

Sorry to hear that. Best wishes for 2024.

What type of job do you do?

thanks, you as well.

I’m a jack of all trades, master of none. Right now I work in Quality for pharma. I started in pharma as a team lead in manufacturing, which is a long story because before that I was a natural resource specialist / park ranger for US army corps of engineers, and worked for various other land mgmt agencies fed/state/local. I kinda did the opposite of a lot of people - I was a park ranger first, and left that to do office work .. which, that of a Fed employee is actually 50+% Office Ranger

 

[wtburnette]

thanks, you as well.

I’m a jack of all trades, master of none. Right now I work in Quality for pharma. I started in pharma as a team lead in manufacturing, which is a long story because before that I was a natural resource specialist / park ranger for US army corps of engineers, and worked for various other land mgmt agencies fed/state/local. I kinda did the opposite of a lot of people - I was a park ranger first, and left that to do office work .. which, that of a Fed employee is actually 50+% Office Ranger

Here's hoping you find a WFH role that suits you...

View attachment 321785

New ‘coffee badging’ job trend has some business leaders on high alert

As more firms call employees back into the office, some workers are expressing their clear distaste.

nypost.com

...What is ‘coffee badging’? ​

As some employees are being called back to the office, many are subtly protesting by returning to the office for as little time as possible, Frank Weishaupt, CEO of Owl Labs in Boston, told FOX Business.

“Coffee badging is when employees show up to the office for enough time to have a cup of coffee, show their face and get a ‘badge swipe’ — then go home to do the rest of their work,” said Weishaupt....

Funny, I was doing that back in 2018 - 2019. At the time I was working from home 2 days a week and going into the office 3 days a week. On the days I was in the office, I was only required to be there from 10am - 2pm, so that's all I was there. Woke up and worked from home for a couple hours, left for work around 9:30 to drive downtown, worked until 2pm and left for the day. I worked longer hours on the days I worked from home.

 

[Cameramonkey]

20pages, I’ll have to read thru this thread when I have a bit.

My formerly-remote position was transitioned back to site, so Jan 2nd will be my final day because I now have an elderly dependent (grandpa) and need a wfh role for his care. man, im hoping 2024 is a better year.

That is really screwing over some folks.

A friend's company that is based out of state hired him another local guy(we are all 3 friends) and others 100% remote during covid with no regard for how close they were to the multiple offices nationwide.

Earlier this year they announced WFH is done. Everybody has to start reporting to the nearest office, even if its not the HQ office they should work from based on their role. Any desk in any branch office is acceptable.

My friends are 8 hours each way from the nearest office. They were given a pass. But others who are within 2 hours were forced to go to an office. I think he said one guy with a 90 minute commute due to traffic quit rather than lose 3 hours of day commuting through ridiculous traffic.

 

[wtburnette]

That is really screwing over some folks.

A friend's company that is based out of state hired him another local guy(we are all 3 friends) and others 100% remote during covid with no regard for how close they were to the multiple offices nationwide.

Earlier this year they announced WFH is done. Everybody has to start reporting to the nearest office, even if its not the HQ office they should work from based on their role. Any desk in any branch office is acceptable.

My friends are 8 hours each way from the nearest office. They were given a pass. But others who are within 2 hours were forced to go to an office. I think he said one guy with a 90 minute commute due to traffic quit rather than lose 3 hours of day commuting through ridiculous traffic.

Anthem did this years ago when I worked for them. The people who didn't work near an office were let go. One of the reasons I no longer work for Anthem.