10 Years Later: Do you support the Patriot Act?

[rambone]

For the sake of argument:

The word warrant appears one time in the Constitution - in the Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendment says:

Warrants are issued according to law, not the Constitution. There is no constitutional requirement that warrants be issued by the judiciary - just that they be issued based upon presentment of probable cause supported by oath. While I am not a fan of the Patriot Act, I fail to see where the provision Paul complains about is unconstitutional.

So under your interpretation, warrants are basically just for show; essentially meaningless window dressing. I disagree with this because a warrant issued by the same person doing the search is for all intents and purposes a "shall issue" warrant, and it ignores the historical context from the period of the revolution.

If the enforcers can write their own warrants then there are no checks or balances on searches, and there is nothing from stopping corrupt and overzealous agents from abusing citizens under color of law. Warrants must come from another branch of government.

The Patriot Act is essentially the modern-day Writs of Assistance Act. Recall that this was the act that allowed the British king’s soldiers to write their own search warrants, and bang down any door they chose, to look for the stamps, smuggled goods, or any other Colonial mischief. This is arguably was the last straw for many of the colonists, which led to calls for independence.

Revolutionary pot-stirrer James Otis, Jr., who coined the phrase "Taxation without representation is tyranny", famously railed against King George's Patriot Act for 5 hours in front of the Massachusetts statehouse.

The opening of his speech gives me some idea about how American revolutionaries felt about warrants written by the JBTs themselves.

I will to my dying day oppose, with all the powers and faculties God has given me, all such instruments of slavery on the one hand and villainy on the other as this Writ of Assistance is. It appears to me the worst instrument of arbitrary power, the most destructive of English liberty and the fundamental principles of law, that ever was found in an English law-book.

James Otis: Against Writs of Assistance
​

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

So under your interpretation, warrants are basically just for show; essentially meaningless window dressing. I disagree with this because a warrant issued by the same person doing the search is for all intents and purposes a "shall issue" warrant, and it ignores the historical context from the period of the revolution.

If the enforcers can write their own warrants then there are no checks or balances on searches, and there is nothing from stopping corrupt and overzealous agents from abusing citizens under color of law. Warrants must come from another branch of government.

The Patriot Act is essentially the modern-day Writs of Assistance Act. Recall that this was the act that allowed the British king’s soldiers to write their own search warrants, and bang down any door they chose, to look for the stamps, smuggled goods, or any other Colonial mischief. This is arguably was the last straw for many of the colonists, which led to calls for independence.

Revolutionary pot-stirrer James Otis, Jr., who coined the phrase "Taxation without representation is tyranny", famously railed against King George's Patriot Act for 5 hours in front of the Massachusetts statehouse.

The opening of his speech gives me some idea about how American revolutionaries felt about warrants written by the JBTs themselves.

I will to my dying day oppose, with all the powers and faculties God has given me, all such instruments of slavery on the one hand and villainy on the other as this Writ of Assistance is. It appears to me the worst instrument of arbitrary power, the most destructive of English liberty and the fundamental principles of law, that ever was found in an English law-book.

James Otis: Against Writs of Assistance
​

As usual you climb to the top of the mountain and jump off for no reason. As usual you make upsurd statements that bare no basis in fact or reality. Did I say that the warrant process enacted in the Patriot Act was necessarily good? No. Not remotely. I said it isn't unconstitutional. Care to debate my actual point?

I argue law. You argue emotion. Some things in the universe remain constant.

 

[rambone]

As usual you make upsurd statements that bare no basis in fact or reality.

At least my statements are based in the English dictionary.

 

[Vince49]

Anglish?

At least my statements are based in the English dictionary.

3 points!

 

[Hotdoger]

So under your interpretation, warrants are basically just for show; essentially meaningless window dressing. I disagree with this because a warrant issued by the same person doing the search is for all intents and purposes a "shall issue" warrant, and it ignores the historical context from the period of the revolution.

If the enforcers can write their own warrants then there are no checks or balances on searches, and there is nothing from stopping corrupt and overzealous agents from abusing citizens under color of law. Warrants must come from another branch of government.

The Patriot Act is essentially the modern-day Writs of Assistance Act. Recall that this was the act that allowed the British king’s soldiers to write their own search warrants, and bang down any door they chose, to look for the stamps, smuggled goods, or any other Colonial mischief. This is arguably was the last straw for many of the colonists, which led to calls for independence.

Revolutionary pot-stirrer James Otis, Jr., who coined the phrase "Taxation without representation is tyranny", famously railed against King George's Patriot Act for 5 hours in front of the Massachusetts statehouse.

The opening of his speech gives me some idea about how American revolutionaries felt about warrants written by the JBTs themselves.

I will to my dying day oppose, with all the powers and faculties God has given me, all such instruments of slavery on the one hand and villainy on the other as this Writ of Assistance is. It appears to me the worst instrument of arbitrary power, the most destructive of English liberty and the fundamental principles of law, that ever was found in an English law-book.

James Otis: Against Writs of Assistance
​

Did the "British king’s soldiers" get a judge to sign off?

If so can you prove factual evidence to prove it?

 

[steveh_131]

Did the "British king’s soldiers" get a judge to sign off?

If so can you prove factual evidence to prove it?

The writs were court-ordered.

writ of assistance, in English and American colonial history, a general search warrant issued by superior provincial courts to assist the British government in enforcing trade and navigation laws.

writ of assistance (British-American colonial history) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

 

[dlbrown75]

Funny how the government labels things to make the zombie public believe its good for them and if you dont like it your anti-american. "patriot act", "federal reserve". JOKES on us.

 

[dlbrown75]

Rambone, the posts on the candidates positions on the patriot act was perfect. Ron Paul in 2012, how could someone vote for anyone else. Especially people who care about protecting americans rights and the constitution.