19 year old wanting a handgun

[Pepi]

My daughter 38 years old tried to buy her son a Glock yesterday. He is only 19 but has a handgun permit. They would not sell her the gun because she told them she was buying it for him as a gift. Is this illegal to do? I would not consider this a 'Straw Deal' knowing he has a handgun permit. Now he is on me wanting me to buy the gun. I don't really want to mess with it.

19 with a handgun permit but can't buy a handgun??? Our laws are so forked up.

 

[Rookie]

I'm guessing she went to a big box store?

 

[snorko]

...19 with a handgun permit but can't buy a handgun??? Our laws are so forked up.

Not from an FFL. May legally buy one in a private transaction. I am not a lawyer but I would not consider that a straw sale.

 

[1nderbeard]

She needs to keep her mouth shut about who or what she's buying for and just buy what she wants. The more you say the worse it will be in my experience.
It is not illegal to buy for someone else, but it is illegal to buy for someone who you know cannot legally posses a firearm.
In this case, she needs to "hold on" to the gun until he's 21.

 

[Rookie]

Not from an FFL. May legally buy one in a private transaction. I am not a lawyer but I would not consider that a straw sale.

Nope. If a person isn't prohibited from owning a firearm, it's not illegal to buy and gift it.

 

[Mr. Habib]

LTCH or not is irrelevant. She is the legal buyer. If she fills out the 4473 and pays the money it is legal. Who she gives or sells it to after she walks out the door is of no legal concern of the FFL. Go to a different dealer buy the gun walk back your car and hand it to him. I purchased a rifle for my daughter for Christmas when she was 4, the dealer knew it was a gift. Why do some dealers make this so difficult? If a dealer doesn't know the they shouldn't be in business IMO.

 

[2A-Hoosier23]

She needs to keep her mouth shut about who or what she's buying for and just buy what she wants. The more you say the worse it will be in my experience.
It is not illegal to buy for someone else, but it is illegal to buy for someone who you know cannot legally posses a firearm.
In this case, she needs to "hold on" to the gun until he's 21.

Why does she need to hold on to it? There is no law stating that you have to be 21 to possess or carry a handgun in Indiana.

There is a reason the Indiana State Police issue the LTCH to people 18 and up. It is totally legal for an 18-year-old non-prohibited person to possess and carry a loaded handgun in Indiana if they have the LTCH. And even if this 18+ non-prohibited person doesn't have the LTCH they can still possess a handgun.

Now, there is a federal law stating you must be 21+ to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer... But that doesn't mean it's illegal for people under 21 to possess a handgun.

Everything else you said I agree with. But she doesn't need to hold on to the gun until he turns 21.

 

[1nderbeard]

Why does she need to hold on to it? There is no law stating that you have to be 21 to possess or carry a handgun in Indiana.

There is a reason the Indiana State Police issue the LTCH to people 18 and up. It is totally legal for an 18-year-old non-prohibited person to possess and carry a loaded handgun in Indiana if they have the LTCH. And even if this 18+ non-prohibited person doesn't have the LTCH they can still possess a handgun.

Now, there is a federal law stating you must be 21+ to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer... But that doesn't mean it's illegal for people under 21 to possess a handgun.

Everything else you said I agree with. But she doesn't need to hold on to the gun until he turns 21.

You're right. I read the FFL purchase law to mean unable to purchase or carry.

 

[2A-Hoosier23]

You're right. I read the FFL purchase law to mean unable to purchase or carry.

Very common misconception. I had my LTCH a month after I turned 18 and started carrying not long after. (Bought my first handgun via private sale.) I can't even count the # of times I had to pull up the laws on my phone to prove to people I wasn't breaking any laws. They were all under the same impression as you.

Occasionally I see for-sale ads in the classys here where the seller writes "Must be 21+ to purchase" or something similar. I would imagine they're under the same impression too.

It doesn't help that many states now have laws on the books prohibiting anyone under 21 from purchasing or possessing any firearm at all. Just adds to the general confusion.

 

[Pepi]

Thanks, guys ... Cleared up some of the mud. I think I will tell him to buy off an individual. The way this country is NOW I don't need my name on any government papers

 

[snorko]

Nope. If a person isn't prohibited from owning a firearm, it's not illegal to buy and gift it.

I was answering her question at the end of the OP. A 19 yo can not buy a handgun from an FFL. I agree with the rest of your post which is what I said as well.

 

[Joniki]

My daughter 38 years old tried to buy her son a Glock yesterday. He is only 19 but has a handgun permit. They would not sell her the gun because she told them she was buying it for him as a gift. Is this illegal to do? I would not consider this a 'Straw Deal' knowing he has a handgun permit. Now he is on me wanting me to buy the gun. I don't really want to mess with it.

19 with a handgun permit but can't buy a handgun??? Our laws are so forked up.

Have your daughter go to a different dealer. Pick out the handgun, do the paperwork and keep her tongue in check. Once she walks out of the store, she can gift the weapon to her son.

 

[DadSmith]

When my boys finished AIT I bought them a Springfield XD 45 Tactical as a reward for serving their country. They were 18 years old at the time.

 

[Route 45]

She needs to keep her mouth shut about who or what she's buying for and just buy what she wants.

This is the way.

 

[BowhuntnHoosier]

Nothing at all illegal with buying a gun for a son or daughter as a gift.

 

[Rookie]

I was answering her question at the end of the OP. A 19 yo can not buy a handgun from an FFL. I agree with the rest of your post which is what I said as well.

Yeah, I read your post wrong. My bad...

 

[Sigblaster]

It is not illegal to buy for someone else, but it is illegal to buy for someone who you know cannot legally posses a firearm.

I want to make this clear. It is NOT illegal to buy a gun as a bona fide gift for someone else. It IS illegal to buy a gun with the express intent of immediately selling it to someone else.

For example, if your friend Joe is looking for a Smith & Remington model 123 in 45 Extra Long Colt, and you see one at a gun shop at a good price, and buy it with the sole intent of selling it to Joe, then that is a straw purchase. It makes no difference whether he is a prohibited person or not.

Now, if Joe is such a good friend that you intend to gift it to him, without any remuneration, then that is not a straw purchase.

 

[Cameramonkey]

She needs to keep her mouth shut about who or what she's buying for and just buy what she wants. The more you say the worse it will be in my experience.
It is not illegal to buy for someone else, but it is illegal to buy for someone who you know cannot legally posses a firearm.
In this case, she needs to "hold on" to the gun until he's 21.

THIS. I heard from an old friend from HS this happened to her too.
Her boyfriend is presently deployed overseas in the military. In a conversation he decided it was a good time for them each to own an AR but it cant wait until he is back stateside. But she knows nothing about them.

So she went to a local LGS and told them what was going on. Her deployed boyfriend asked her to buy two ARs... a his-n-hers situation. They turned her away fearing a straw purchase.

I sent her to an INGO site supporter LGS and instructed her to keep her yap shut about the boyfriend. As far as the LGS is concerned, she's a single mom concerned for her safety.

EDIT: Missed that line the first time around. No. Just NO.
Facts:
-You can get a LTCH at 18. (ive had mine that long)
-You can be gifted a handgun at 18 (maybe even sooner now that I think about it)
-You can buy a handgun at 18 from a willing private seller.

By your logic, why can you apply for a LTCH if mom has to wait until he is 21 to own it?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

She needs to just buy the gun, realize a day later she doesn’t like the gun, and gift it to her son who is legally allowed and licensed to carry. He has a LTCH, Indiana allows parents or guardians to buy a handgun for their child if they are 18 or older. The state gave him a license to carry a handgun... what sense would it make to license an individual to carry it and make it illegal to provide him with it?

Again. Buy the handgun. Decide “she doesn’t like it” and gift it to him if they won’t sell it to her for him.

If it were me I wouldn’t spend my money there anyways. Go to someone who knows Indiana law and give them your hard earned money instead. Nothing wrong with a business being cautious, but they should know the law and be glad our youth is exercising their right to bear arms.

 

[worddoer]

In this case, she needs to "hold on" to the gun until he's 21.

Not really. I dealt with this many times when I worked behind a gun counter.

Indiana law allows anyone 18 or older who is "proper person" to own a handgun as well as obtain a "license to carry a handgun" to carry that same handgun. Indiana law does not place a restriction on the purchase of handguns. That is federal law.

Federal law prohibits anyone under the age of 21 from purchasing a handgun from an FFL, not from owning one. Since Indiana law does not align with federal law, this creates a odd situation for 18-20 year old's. They can own and carry handguns, but they cannot purchase them.

In this case, if the parent purchases the handgun as a true 100% gift (no exchange of money, services nor any compensation in any form).....as a true 100% gift, it is permissible for a parent to purchase a handgun for their 18-20 year old child assuming the child is a "proper person".

What the OP encountered was probably related to their store policy. Most of the people behind the counter at a box store are poorly educated by their employer and often don't know the difference between store policy and the law.

ATF does not mind true 100% gifts to immediate family members who are "proper persons" (parents - children - siblings) under the age of 21. But once someone is 21 or older, the grey zone is more murky and the ATF gets a lot more picky.

Because of this added murkiness and pickiness from the ATF, this is how most box stores handle those 21 or older. There viewpoint is that this helps to separate out those who really want to offer a gift versus those who are attempting a straw purchase.

If a family member wishes to gift a gun to someone 21 or older, the preferred method the ATF mentions is to offer a gift card or gift certificate to the family member. This allows the family member to help pay for the gun all while the 4473 and all related background checks and documents are being run in the name of the person who will actually be the owner of the gun.

A gift card is not as pretty as a nice shiny new gun under the Christmas tree. But that is how many box stores choose to do business these days.