1911 doesn't like to feed the last round of JHP

[doublebarrel]

I've got a Colt O1991 Series 80 Gov't for a little over a year. It shoots FMJ no problem, and I believe I've shot Wichester WWB 230gr JHP in it once. Recently I shot a box of Winchester PDX1 230gr, and the gun showed a dislike of the last round in the magazine.

The mags I use are the one came with the gun. They are 7rd, dimpled metal non-skirted follower, hybrid feed lips (this is the term I learned here: 1911 Magazine Analysis: Gross Anatomy), welded flush floor plate type made by CheckMate (has a little C at the bottom). When shooting, if the last two rounds in the mag were the PDX1, it'd fire the 2nd last round, lock back be done. The last round was rolling around in the ejection port like I just dropped it in there...

Other people suggested trying other mags. If someone here would let me try their mags at the Eagle Creek (my ammo, of course), I'd appreciate it. The web page I listed above, gave high marks to Colt hybrid 7rd mags. I'm surprised to see even these loose fitting, "combat" grade 1911s could be ammo picky. It's a modern version, not a WWII piece. Those high-end 1911s like Les Bear or Ed Brown or whathaveyou, they supposed to jam, as they are built tight... Thanks for any feedback!

 

[doublebarrel]

The first from the right, is the Colt hybrid:

 

[LCSOSgt11]

The mags MIGHT be the problem, however, if the feed ramp is not polished properly or the barrel "throated" adequately the last round can hang up.

I use Wilson Combat #47 mags, seven round only and replace the mag springs every year. I have a full size 1911 and run an 18 1/2 lb. recoil spring also. I have had no problems with that setup.

 

[60Driver]

Those high-end 1911s like Les Bear or Ed Brown or whathaveyou, they supposed to jam, as they are built tight...

Pretty sure Les and Bill don't think their guns are supposed to jam and I have run just about every mag ammo combo imaginable in my Baer. But lets look at what your 1911 is doing.

Magazines would be my first guess, Checkmate are good mags but the springs might be getting weak. The PDX loads may be hotter than the ball you have run before so the slide may be out running the spring. Try different mags as you already figured out. If the problem goes away before you buy new mags try Wolff extra power springs for a cheaper solution.

The other part that is confusing me a bit is the "Slide locking back" sounds like the follower is bumping the the slide stop perhaps? But this seems odd on 2nd to last round. Other cause for this I have seen is an extended slide stop with to much mass and poor fitment (not tight like a Baer) kicking up under recoil. This seems odd though with the second to last round in your case.

Extractor is another commmon problem area and could cause issues like this. Don't have the Extractor test info handy but I will dig it up or another member may have it handy. Basically if tension is off the Malfunction can occur, and you can check this by placing a fired case in the breach face under the extractor...

Recoil Spring is a cheap change and should be done for maintenance anyways so you may wan't to swap that out as suggested.

What you have learned is that the 1911 is a Machine/System...change a variable (in this case ammo) and the system can get out of tune. This is why other designs like Glock are loved, they require less "tuning", and I say this as a 1911 Believer!

Link to a Great thread on 1911 malfunctions that might be helpful...
1911 Malfunctions - Photo Reference - 10-8 Forums

There is Much 1911 wisdom on this board, many far more experienced than me, and I am sure between us we can get your Colt running like a top!

 

[Lock n Load]

Not sure if this has changed.... but Colt 1911s were notorious for jamming with HP ammo. They were/ are? only guarenteed to function with ball or RN ammo.

Personally I would polish the feedramp and buy Wilson #47 mags. I use them in all of my 1911s and never have any issues. After those two items and you still have problems then its time to look at the pistols components... extractor, springs etc....

Keep us posted,

 

[OD*]

Check (or have someone familiar with the 1911 do it) the extractor's tension, and replace your magazine's spring, I seriously doubt there is anything wrong with your barrel. DON'T polish it, the new "dimpled" barrels do not need it, most of them I've had experience with will feed about anything, including the cute parlor trick of feeding empties.

Proper tensioning of the extractor is vital to reliability. Too much tension and chambering will be severely impeded or prevented. Too little tension, and extraction and ejection will be weak or non-existent. An old gunsmith trick to test the tension of the extractor is to remove the slide from the pistol, and push a round of ammo up under the extractor from below. With proper tension, the round should be held in place regardless of how the slide is turned, yet when the round is moved downwards from its center position about 1/10 of an inch, the round should drop off.

 

[latigo]

I had the same problem with a Kimber. It was the magizine. They replaced it with the same magizine same follower in it and it works fine. Just didn't like the one mag. The "Bad" Mag works fine in my other 1911s.

 

[doublebarrel]

The gun is only a year old (got it brand new in fall of '09 from Bob@PSS), can't imagine the mag springs are already weak. I've shot only 500 rounds so far, give or take. I haven't changed anything on my gun, everything is original, even the grips. Once I put a Hogue rubber finger-grooved grips on. Found it made the gun fatter, so now the rosewood grips are back on. I really want to change that bloody hammer and grip safety to a beavertailed one. The hammer draws blood everytime before I could even finish the first mag. But now, I don't know if I'd still keep the thing...

And, it's not a jam, per se. The gun WILL shoot PDX1, upto six rounds in a row. It just won't chamber the last round of PDX1, but somehow manage to strip that last round out of the mag along with the second last one. I just can't imagine how it could happen. If the gun chambers the 2nd last round (this will be the same even if I only load two rounds in the mag, either of the two mags), the next round i.e., the last round, is already out of the mag, but got held down by the slide. Because after the chambered round got fired, the slide only moves backward, and get locked open. It does not go forward so I don't think it can strip another round from the mag. Now the last round is free and clear, and it sits on top of the mag rolling from side to side. The slide backward movement can't pull the last round out of the mag, so it has to be free before the 2nd last round is fired. I just can't imagine how the slide could strip two rounds at a time, chamber one, and keep the next down while the mag is still in the gun...

 

[doublebarrel]

BTW, this is the model of my Colt. I got the WWII or GI kind of hammer and grip safety. They suck. Just holding the gun in my hand, the hammer never touches my skin, but firing a few round and a small piece of skin and/or meat will be missing. Don't know how the soldiers in WWII and other war times endured this thing...

 

[ghitch75]

i would try a different mag.....i have had good luck with these's......mags make all difference in the operation of a 1911...

1911 Elite Tactical Magazine | 8 Round .45 ACP | Full-Size-Wilson Combat

 

[NHT3]

I've got a Colt O1991 Series 80 Gov't for a little over a year. It shoots FMJ no problem, and I believe I've shot Wichester WWB 230gr JHP in it once. Recently I shot a box of Winchester PDX1 230gr, and the gun showed a dislike of the last round in the magazine.

The mags I use are the one came with the gun. They are 7rd, dimpled metal non-skirted follower, hybrid feed lips (this is the term I learned here: 1911 Magazine Analysis: Gross Anatomy), welded flush floor plate type made by CheckMate (has a little C at the bottom). When shooting, if the last two rounds in the mag were the PDX1, it'd fire the 2nd last round, lock back be done. The last round was rolling around in the ejection port like I just dropped it in there...

Other people suggested trying other mags. If someone here would let me try their mags at the Eagle Creek (my ammo, of course), I'd appreciate it. The web page I listed above, gave high marks to Colt hybrid 7rd mags. I'm surprised to see even these loose fitting, "combat" grade 1911s could be ammo picky. It's a modern version, not a WWII piece. Those high-end 1911s like Les Bear or Ed Brown or whathaveyou, they supposed to jam, as they are built tight... Thanks for any feedback!

Try Wilson Combat mags, and I've NEVER had an sort of malfunction with any of the Gen I Kimber or Nighthawk that I've shot.. Built tight doesn't mean too tight to function, just accurate.

 

[Drail]

If it is feeding the first 4 or 5 rounds perfectly and only chokes on the last couple of rounds, it's your magazine spring. It doesn't matter how old it is or who made it. Lots of companies today are using JUNK springs in their products. I would also have your extractor tension and hook finish checked (no rough surfaces/no square corners). There may be enough mag spring tension to shove the first 4 or 5 into a rough extractor hook but not enough after that. DO NOT mess with the barrel ramp. If there was a problem with it you would have feed problems with the first round out of the mag.

 

[Drail]

One other possible problem is that these loads are driving the slide just a little faster than normal and the magazine spring is not able to get the rounds up fast enough to be picked up (especially the last couple). A 16 lb. recoil spring is enough for most standard loads but when you get into the hotter stuff a 17 lb. can help slow the slide down a little. A lot of guys will tell you to run an 18 lb. recoil spring but then the slide will start closing faster and harder and will accelerate wear on the barrel and slide lugs. I would recommend new recoil and mag springs from Wolff or ISMI. Extra power mag springs are available and are worth the investment.

 

[Srtsi4wd]

If it is feeding the first 4 or 5 rounds perfectly and only chokes on the last couple of rounds, it's your magazine spring. It doesn't matter how old it is or who made it. Lots of companies today are using JUNK springs in their products. I would also have your extractor tension and hook finish checked (no rough surfaces/no square corners). There may be enough mag spring tension to shove the first 4 or 5 into a rough extractor hook but not enough after that. DO NOT mess with the barrel ramp. If there was a problem with it you would have feed problems with the first round out of the mag.

Im with Drail. Is the first round you load VERY easy to put in the mag? The spring may no be strong enough to hold the round tightly against the feed lips. the slide goes back in recoil and the round slides out of the mag due to inertia. It may look like it was stripped from the mag, but I bet it hit the feed ramp and breech face. The follower is hitting the slide lock lever as the last round slid out of the mag as the slide was moving rearward.
The FMJ has a longer OAL and cant move far enough forward to get free of the mag lips. Just my . Good luck!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I'm not an expert but I would try polishing the feed ramp. From my experience some .45's can be picky when it comes to feeding JHP's. From what I have seen. Usually if it's a mag problem. You'll have problems from round one. That's why when I owned my CZ .45 I wound up going to FMJ's.

 

[doublebarrel]

Im with Drail. Is the first round you load VERY easy to put in the mag?

Yeah, loading 1911 mags is much easier than any Glock magazine I've used. As for feed ramps, I saw mixed signals here. Some say not to polish some say yes. Also, the majority of the feed ramp is actually on the frame. The part that's on the barrel is like a small lip, looks like an afterthought (don't know why Browning didn't design a one-piece feed ramp, like most of modern pistols)...

I think the feed ramps are working pretty good. I can slow chamber a round of PDX1, riding the slide home as slow as possible. It always chambers and always get in battery...

 

[Drail]

Slowly chambering a round by hand does not tell you anything, the gun doesn't function that way when firing. The round doesn't actually slide up the ramp, it hits it in one spot and bounces up until it contacts the roof of the chamber and then breaks over and goes in. I have seen more guns ruined by owners "polishing" the ramp than almost anything else. Start with the mag. Then the extractor and breechface. The 1911's reliability depends on the springs and the magazine and a smooth transition of the cartridge into the extractor hook more than almost anything else. If all that is correct then I would suspect a possible problem with out of spec ammunition (too long - too short). While polishing a feed ramp may help a very small amount to feed rounds it usually serves to cover up the real problem. Many thousands of military guns fed perfectly for many years of service with rough feed ramps. Most of the guys who tell you to polish the ramp are not gunsmiths.

 

[Josh Ward]

Sure sounds like a mag problem to me.....

LOL at the comment that hi end 1911s are made to jam......that doesn't make any snece at all

 

[ghitch75]

springs are cheaper than a new frame......if you screw the ramp up.....

 

[60Driver]

Drail is dead on with his advice here. You can CAREFULLY polish the ramp... BUT that is most likely not the issue. AND if you change the geometry of the ramp you can WRECK the pistols reliability. I am posting a good overview of 1911 reliability, it includes a good drawing of extractor geometry and polishing areas etc along with a great deal of other information. Bottom line is try Mags or new Mag springs first, and while your there try a new recoil spring! This is relatively cheap and you will not jack anything up. If this does not fix the problem have a GOOD smith look it over. I am new to the area so will defer to the locals for advice on 1911 smiths in the area

Here is the article for your information:
1911 Reliability Secrets