AndersonIN
Master
Picked up a copy of the 2010-2011 Indiana Hunting & Trapping Regulations pamphlet recently (little 6 page fold out you can pick up at most stores that sell hunting & fishing supplies). On page 2 under "It is illegal to...." section about the 8th point down it states: "Ride an off-road vehicle with a loaded firearm (unless permitted with a valid concealed-carry permit)......."
Please folks this is NOT a CONCEALED VERUS OPEN CARRY POST!!!
SO please NO
This is only posted to demonstrate that WE can at times bring things to the attention of state and local enforcement agencies and get results if we are willing to take the time.
Sorry but you'll need to read the emails from the bottom up to follow properly.
***************************************************************
My final email:
Thank you again for your prompt attention!
I was aware of the "special" area's mentioned and the Federal Regulations but appreciate the reminder as many are not.
Take care and have a safe New Year!
----- Original Message -----
From: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
To: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
Cc: "Phil Bloom" <PBloom@dnr.IN.gov>
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2011 9:06:31 AM
Subject: RE: Hunting Guide language
### the online versions of the publications in question will be changed as soon as possible. There is no way of course to recall or edit the many thousands of printed documents already in circulation. Future printings are going to be modified to reflect the correct language, and we thank you for bring this to our attention. It appears to have been in several publications for several years that way.
The Director of State Parks and Reservoirs will be made aware of your concerns regarding training of his employees in the State Parks. You may or may not be aware that you cannot possess a firearm on a DNR Reservoir Property or at Falls of the Ohio State Park due to overriding Federal Regulations from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, who actually owns those properties.
Capt. Michael Portteus
Indiana DNR Law Enforcement Div.
Records & Communications Section
(317) 232-4012
MPortteus@dnr.IN.gov
From:
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:06 PM
To: DNR LAW
Cc: Bloom, Phil; Farmer, Mark
Subject: Re: Hunting Guide language
Capt. Portteus,
Thank you for the suggestion and I will mentioned to others. As for addressing the situation I (not being shy of course) brought this to the park's head DNR person the next morning and it was handled by them with the utmost professionalism. So I really prefer not to bring up an "old" issue that I believe was handled properly after the initial situation. The ONLY reason it was brought up in the first place was to bring attention to the fact that with the prior situation and the pamphlet claiming the use of a concealed carry permits within the state of Indiana. It was apparent that some groups within the DNR still were unaware of the actual law.
Thank you for your reply and addressing this situation also!
I greatly appreciate your efforts!
----- Original Message -----
From: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
To:
Cc: "Phil Bloom" <PBloom@dnr.IN.gov>, "Mark Farmer" <mfarmer@dnr.IN.gov>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2011 10:49:41 AM
Subject: RE: Hunting Guide language
I will pass this information to the land holding divisions. In the future, if this happens again, my suggestion would be that you ask the DNR Employee to contact a Conservation Officer. That should resolve the issue with that employee at that property. On which DNR Property did an employee become confrontational? I can have that specifically addressed.
Capt. Michael Portteus
IN DNR Law Enforcement Div.
Records & Communications Section
(317) 232-4012
MPortteus@dnr.IN.gov
From:
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:21 PM
To: DNR LAW
Subject: Re: Hunting Guide language
I certainly understand how daunting of a task this must be. I have just been approached on more than one occasion by DNR "employees" in uniform (at least with DNR patches etc.) that we not aware of the law as stated below. The individual became very confrontational and it was not a pleasant situation at all.
It seems that he and others were unaware of the law concerning open/concealed carry of a weapon. My only effort here is an attempt to avoid a similar situation for myself and any others that might carry a weapon into one of our beautiful state parks as we choose.
Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
To:
Cc: "Phil Bloom" <PBloom@dnr.IN.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2011 2:34:35 PM
Subject: RE: Hunting Guide language
“DNR Staff” covers a very wide spectrum of job descriptions, most of which are not law enforcement related. What type of staff person are you referring to when you say that you “have had to make several of your DNR employees aware of this FACT…”? DNR has more than 20 divisions and more than 3000 employees during the summer when the intermittent employees are working
Capt. Michael Portteus
IN DNR Law Enforcement Div.
Records & Communications Section
(317) 232-4012
MPortteus@dnr.IN.gov
From:
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:54 PM
To: DNR LAW
Subject: Re: Hunting Guide language
Capt. Portteus,
Thank you for the response! Is there anyone that I can contact concerning the training received by the DNR staff?
----- Original Message -----
From: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2011 1:43:18 PM
Subject: RE: Hunting Guide language
I forwarded your concerns to Mitch Marcus, the Chief of Wildlife in the Division of Fish & Wildlife. The publication in question is generated from within his shop.
Capt. Michael Portteus
IN DNR Law Enforcement Div.
Records & Communications Section
(317) 232-4012
MPortteus@dnr.IN.gov
-----Original Message-----
FROM THE DNR WEB SITE
From:
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:21 AM
To: DNR LAW
Subject: [website inquiry]
To:
Your email address:
Your name:####
Your question:
In the 2010-2011 Indiana Hunting & Trapping Regulations 6 page "foldout" that I picked up recently, it states under the "It is illegal to...." section, bullet point #8 states "Ride an off-road vehicle with a loaded firearm (unless permitted with a valid concealed-carry permit). If the individual does not have a valid concealed-carry permit, the firearm must also be encased or made inoperative with a trigger lock."
The state of Indiana does NOT issue "Concealed Carry Permits". They do issue a "License to Carry Handgun". To take it a step further it is NOT necessary to even "CONCEAL" your weapon. I've had to make several of your DNR employees aware of this FACT in the past! Please reference the Indiana State Police Web site under Firearms/FAQ area located at:
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/2010_Firearms_licensing_FAQs(1).pdf top of page 9 states:
"Indiana law is silent on this issue; however, carrying an exposed weapon in public may alarm some people. Also, the right to carry afirearm may be restricted on private property and businesses by the owners. Be attentive for signs warning of restricted areas when carrying firearms into public places. If approached by law enforcement for official business such as traffic stops or complaint related inquiries, it is recommended that you tell the officer in a non-threatening manner that you are carrying a weapon or have a weapon in the vehicle and that you have a valid permit. A law enforcement officer does have the right to inspect the permit."
In the future please correctly label the handgun license properly. It would also be appreciated if you would properly train all of your DNR employees to the legal rights of those that DO wish to carry their weapons in a non-concealed fashion.
I would appreciate a reply to this email and my comments. I would be more than happy to discuss this issue with you or answer any questions you might have by phone ###-### or in person tomorrow 1/6 as I will be in downtown Indianapolis tomorrow and available.
Thank you for your time and attention.
Please folks this is NOT a CONCEALED VERUS OPEN CARRY POST!!!
SO please NO
This is only posted to demonstrate that WE can at times bring things to the attention of state and local enforcement agencies and get results if we are willing to take the time.
Sorry but you'll need to read the emails from the bottom up to follow properly.
***************************************************************
My final email:
Thank you again for your prompt attention!
I was aware of the "special" area's mentioned and the Federal Regulations but appreciate the reminder as many are not.
Take care and have a safe New Year!
----- Original Message -----
From: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
To: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
Cc: "Phil Bloom" <PBloom@dnr.IN.gov>
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2011 9:06:31 AM
Subject: RE: Hunting Guide language
### the online versions of the publications in question will be changed as soon as possible. There is no way of course to recall or edit the many thousands of printed documents already in circulation. Future printings are going to be modified to reflect the correct language, and we thank you for bring this to our attention. It appears to have been in several publications for several years that way.
The Director of State Parks and Reservoirs will be made aware of your concerns regarding training of his employees in the State Parks. You may or may not be aware that you cannot possess a firearm on a DNR Reservoir Property or at Falls of the Ohio State Park due to overriding Federal Regulations from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, who actually owns those properties.
Capt. Michael Portteus
Indiana DNR Law Enforcement Div.
Records & Communications Section
(317) 232-4012
MPortteus@dnr.IN.gov
From:
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:06 PM
To: DNR LAW
Cc: Bloom, Phil; Farmer, Mark
Subject: Re: Hunting Guide language
Capt. Portteus,
Thank you for the suggestion and I will mentioned to others. As for addressing the situation I (not being shy of course) brought this to the park's head DNR person the next morning and it was handled by them with the utmost professionalism. So I really prefer not to bring up an "old" issue that I believe was handled properly after the initial situation. The ONLY reason it was brought up in the first place was to bring attention to the fact that with the prior situation and the pamphlet claiming the use of a concealed carry permits within the state of Indiana. It was apparent that some groups within the DNR still were unaware of the actual law.
Thank you for your reply and addressing this situation also!
I greatly appreciate your efforts!
----- Original Message -----
From: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
To:
Cc: "Phil Bloom" <PBloom@dnr.IN.gov>, "Mark Farmer" <mfarmer@dnr.IN.gov>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2011 10:49:41 AM
Subject: RE: Hunting Guide language
I will pass this information to the land holding divisions. In the future, if this happens again, my suggestion would be that you ask the DNR Employee to contact a Conservation Officer. That should resolve the issue with that employee at that property. On which DNR Property did an employee become confrontational? I can have that specifically addressed.
Capt. Michael Portteus
IN DNR Law Enforcement Div.
Records & Communications Section
(317) 232-4012
MPortteus@dnr.IN.gov
From:
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:21 PM
To: DNR LAW
Subject: Re: Hunting Guide language
I certainly understand how daunting of a task this must be. I have just been approached on more than one occasion by DNR "employees" in uniform (at least with DNR patches etc.) that we not aware of the law as stated below. The individual became very confrontational and it was not a pleasant situation at all.
It seems that he and others were unaware of the law concerning open/concealed carry of a weapon. My only effort here is an attempt to avoid a similar situation for myself and any others that might carry a weapon into one of our beautiful state parks as we choose.
Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
To:
Cc: "Phil Bloom" <PBloom@dnr.IN.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2011 2:34:35 PM
Subject: RE: Hunting Guide language
“DNR Staff” covers a very wide spectrum of job descriptions, most of which are not law enforcement related. What type of staff person are you referring to when you say that you “have had to make several of your DNR employees aware of this FACT…”? DNR has more than 20 divisions and more than 3000 employees during the summer when the intermittent employees are working
Capt. Michael Portteus
IN DNR Law Enforcement Div.
Records & Communications Section
(317) 232-4012
MPortteus@dnr.IN.gov
From:
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:54 PM
To: DNR LAW
Subject: Re: Hunting Guide language
Capt. Portteus,
Thank you for the response! Is there anyone that I can contact concerning the training received by the DNR staff?
----- Original Message -----
From: "DNR LAW" <dnrlaw@dnr.IN.gov>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2011 1:43:18 PM
Subject: RE: Hunting Guide language
I forwarded your concerns to Mitch Marcus, the Chief of Wildlife in the Division of Fish & Wildlife. The publication in question is generated from within his shop.
Capt. Michael Portteus
IN DNR Law Enforcement Div.
Records & Communications Section
(317) 232-4012
MPortteus@dnr.IN.gov
-----Original Message-----
FROM THE DNR WEB SITE
From:
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:21 AM
To: DNR LAW
Subject: [website inquiry]
To:
Your email address:
Your name:####
Your question:
In the 2010-2011 Indiana Hunting & Trapping Regulations 6 page "foldout" that I picked up recently, it states under the "It is illegal to...." section, bullet point #8 states "Ride an off-road vehicle with a loaded firearm (unless permitted with a valid concealed-carry permit). If the individual does not have a valid concealed-carry permit, the firearm must also be encased or made inoperative with a trigger lock."
The state of Indiana does NOT issue "Concealed Carry Permits". They do issue a "License to Carry Handgun". To take it a step further it is NOT necessary to even "CONCEAL" your weapon. I've had to make several of your DNR employees aware of this FACT in the past! Please reference the Indiana State Police Web site under Firearms/FAQ area located at:
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/2010_Firearms_licensing_FAQs(1).pdf top of page 9 states:
"Indiana law is silent on this issue; however, carrying an exposed weapon in public may alarm some people. Also, the right to carry afirearm may be restricted on private property and businesses by the owners. Be attentive for signs warning of restricted areas when carrying firearms into public places. If approached by law enforcement for official business such as traffic stops or complaint related inquiries, it is recommended that you tell the officer in a non-threatening manner that you are carrying a weapon or have a weapon in the vehicle and that you have a valid permit. A law enforcement officer does have the right to inspect the permit."
In the future please correctly label the handgun license properly. It would also be appreciated if you would properly train all of your DNR employees to the legal rights of those that DO wish to carry their weapons in a non-concealed fashion.
I would appreciate a reply to this email and my comments. I would be more than happy to discuss this issue with you or answer any questions you might have by phone ###-### or in person tomorrow 1/6 as I will be in downtown Indianapolis tomorrow and available.
Thank you for your time and attention.
