20ga Home Defense Ammo

[MooreALX]

I've been working on my girlfriend who, in her words, "doesn't like guns". I didn't think I was making any progress, until the other day when she was talking about a new apartment, and she mentioned she would want a gun when she moves there.

I'm thinking about letting her use my 20ga Remington 870. What ammo do you all recommend for home defense? Do you guys keep your home defense shotguns in condition 1 or 3?

 

[JTinIN]

Choice is between #3 Buck (most common Buck Shot) or possible a large bird shot ... with my choice having been #3 Buck in the house.

Picking between a pump shotgun with one in the chamber and the safety on or loaded mag with safety off and the mag loaded depends a lot on what you do when you pick it up, how hidden it is and level of alarms / door security ..... If one is not going to play with it, lot to be said with loaded and safety on, if people are playing with it, then you have more issues.

 

[kalboy]

If you haven't already done so it would be a good idea to at least get out and let her shoot, familiarize here with the gun and explain and demonstrate safe gun handling if not go further and have her attend some sort of gun safety class. Again, assuming this hasn't already been done.
As far as ammo I'd tale a look at the Federal #2 buck loads as well as the more common #3B.
Best of luck as you proceed.
My vote for a relative newcomer to firearms storing an SD pumper would be full mag, empty chamber and safety off. But that's just from a distance advice.

 

[SERparacord]

#3 or #4 would be best.

 

[pudly]

Bird shot is for birds- not nearly enough penetration. I'll give a second to #3 buck.

The following testing sold me on it: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

 

[RandomName]

Its tough to go wrong with #4 and up. It depends on if you want to be biased toward pellet weight or number of pellets, of course, but I think #2 is about the best of both worlds. Preferably 3" shells if your shotgun accepts them.

Federal Power Shok shells tend to get good reviews, but I can't personally attest to their 20g effectiveness.

 

[DRob]

Test the ammo

We went through a similar scenario when we were getting an HD shotgun which might be used by my wife. Our gun is a Mossberg 500 Persuader with a full stock and is not very heavy. This means it's not going to absorb much recoil. We got several recommendations for loads (12 Gauge) and all of them fell in the category of hottest, heaviest loads available. We quickly found this to be BAD ADVICE even for an unusually strong 150 lb woman who is a shooter. At 6'2" and 290 I did not like shooting these loads and she flatly refused to shoot it again after firing 1 rd! This is a woman who will put dozens of rds through her Glock 27 with no problem.

Here's what we learned. Full house 3" magnum loads of buckshot do little more than satisfy some magnum-macho image and are extremely unpleasant to shoot in this type of gun! If your girlfriend is even the slightest bit intimidated by the gun, she will likely be either less effective with it or choose to not use it at all. The solution is the heaviest 12 gauge HD gun you can find (they aren't very heavy) with "Managed" or "Reduced" recoil ammo. Both Federal and Remington make suitable 2 3/4" loads in 12 gauge. We've found these loads to be very manageable and have less felt recoil than target loads in our 20 gauge O/U. Remember, in a HD event, you are likely to be shooting very short ranges. The longest shot available in our 3 bedroom house is less than 60' and that's from one end of the kitchen, down the hall, into the farthest bedroom. A more likely range is 20' max and job #1 is getting a load of buckshot on target!

 

[cosermann]

See article here:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

And DRob brings up a good point about shotgun weight. Sometimes people go to 20 ga for less recoil, but it's also ends up being in a lighter, field-size shotgun - negating the recoil "savings."

If you go 20 ga, keep the weight up to that of a comparable 12 ga, or you may see less recoil reduction than you expect.

 

[MooreALX]

I've taken her shooting a couple times, and I've gotten her try try shooting just about everything. When I mentioned that the shotgun might make the most sense for her, she seemed a little relieved, and said she felt more comfortable with that. I'll take her shooting a couple more times to get her going. I want her to be completely comfortable with administratively operating the weapon without my help or guidance. And I'd really like to set up a few drills to simulate running to the other room to get the gun, and then engaging the target.

 

[MooreALX]

See article here:

Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition, .357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?

And DRob brings up a good point about shotgun weight. Sometimes people go to 20 ga for less recoil, but it's also ends up being in a lighter, field-size shotgun - negating the recoil "savings."

If you go 20 ga, keep the weight up to that of a comparable 12 ga, or you may see less recoil reduction than you expect.

I already have the 20ga, otherwise I'd be right there with you. It was handed down to me, so I didn't actually pick it out. I'm not much of a shotgun guy, so for as often as I'd use it, I can just get it back from her for the day.

 

[Gibster]

Ditto, the lighter loads with #3 (.25 dia) of #4 (.24 dia) for home defense. Be sure to stress the fact that these rounds are easily capable of going right through an interior sheetrock wall so attention must be paid to what is beyond the target. A short 18-1/2" barrel to open up the close range pattern might be a consideration for a hurried stressful situation as well.

 

[melensdad]

We went through a similar scenario when we were getting an HD shotgun which might be used by my wife. Our gun is a Mossberg 500 Persuader with a full stock and is not very heavy. This means it's not going to absorb much recoil. We got several recommendations for loads (12 Gauge) and all of them fell in the category of hottest, heaviest loads available. We quickly found this to be BAD ADVICE even for an unusually strong 150 lb woman who is a shooter. At 6'2" and 290 I did not like shooting these loads and she flatly refused to shoot it again after firing 1 rd! This is a woman who will put dozens of rds through her Glock 27 with no problem.

Here's what we learned. Full house 3" magnum loads of buckshot do little more than satisfy some magnum-macho image and are extremely unpleasant to shoot in this type of gun! If your girlfriend is even the slightest bit intimidated by the gun, she will likely be either less effective with it or choose to not use it at all. The solution is the heaviest 12 gauge HD gun you can find (they aren't very heavy) with "Managed" or "Reduced" recoil ammo. Both Federal and Remington make suitable 2 3/4" loads in 12 gauge. We've found these loads to be very manageable and have less felt recoil than target loads in our 20 gauge O/U. Remember, in a HD event, you are likely to be shooting very short ranges. The longest shot available in our 3 bedroom house is less than 60' and that's from one end of the kitchen, down the hall, into the farthest bedroom. A more likely range is 20' max and job #1 is getting a load of buckshot on target!

Preaching to the choir and thank you for doing so.

I've often said made very similar statements about home defense guns. A HD gun should be set up for the SMALLEST WEAKEST PERSON who is likely to actually use the gun.

In my case, my HD shotgun is a 20 Gauge Remington 870 Tactical, 8 round factory installed tube, pistol grip, with an adjustable KNOXX recoil reducing stock. Fairly compact but fairly heavy for a 20 gauge gun.

My shell of choice, #3 Buckshot.

50% of the recoil of a 12 gauge but 70% of the muzzle energy. At short ranges it would be devastating to the intruder and it is not punishing for the shooter.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

DRob and Melensdad are right. 3" magnum loads are great for knocking down geese at distance, but for home defense the smallest person in your home should be who it's set up for. 2 3/4 buckshot works well, and reduced recoil loads might be just the ticket.

 

[JetGirl]

I'm thinking about letting her use my 20ga Remington 870. What ammo do you all recommend for home defense?

See article here:

Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition, .357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?

The 870 20ga is my HD gun as well. The information linked by Cosermann is the same one I used back in the day to determine what was best for me.
If you scroll down, you'll find:
20 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition Recommendations
"We're unaware of any ammunition company who offers a 20 gauge shotshell that is loaded with #1 buckshot. The largest shot size commercially available that we know of is number 2 buck.

From a strict wound ballistics standpoint, we feel the Federal Classic 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 2 buckshot cartridge is the best choice. It contains 18 pellets of number 2 buckshot in a plastic shotcup with granulated plastic shot buffer."

So I use Federal Power Shok in #2;

 

[melensdad]

"We're unaware of any ammunition company who offers a 20 gauge shotshell that is loaded with #1 buckshot. The largest shot size commercially available that we know of is number 2 buck.

Their logic seems to be that the biggest available is the best. I don't buy that logic for the simple reason that over-penetration in the home is ALSO a factor that must be considered. They say that since there is no #1 then they want #2. They dismiss all others. Personally when I can find limited runs of #4 that is my first choice, but in commercial loadings the #3 is by far the most common of the buckshot choices so its what I typically use.

I want a COMBINATION of knockdown energy AND reasonable penetration. And while I fully believe (based on tests by Massad Ayoob) that both #3 and #4 Buckshot will stop a threat dead in its tracks, I think his points about penetration inside a home must also be factored into the choice of a home defense round. Larger buckshot penetrates deeper. I don't need to blow a hole through an intruder and then through 2 rooms behind him. I'd be very happy to simply have the pellets stop in the bookcase or wall behind the bad guy. Essentially bigger is NOT always better.

Remember physics class, for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so from the same source you quote: "However, the Federal Classic load might produce too much recoil for some people. Given this consideration, Remington's Premier Buckshot 2 ¾-inch 20 gauge number 3 buckshot cartridge is the next best choice. This load contains 20 pieces of nickel-plated, hardened lead shot that is buffered to reduce pellet deformation from post ignition acceleration and terminal impact. The Remington buckshot load will probably produce the tightest shot patterns in 20 gauge shotguns.

Third place is Winchester's 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 3 buckshot cartridge, which contains 24 pieces of buffered, copper-plated, hardened lead shot."

Many of us have already agreed that we don't want a 12 gauge with 00 Buckshot, but it seems like your source is implying that "if you are stuck with a 20 gauge then get the closest thing you can get to a 12 gauge." I don't buy that. With my 12 gauges I don't load them with 00 Buck either, I load them with either #3 or #4 Buckshot.

 

[JetGirl]

Their logic seems to be that the biggest available is the best. I don't buy that logic for the simple reason that over-penetration in the home is ALSO a factor that must be considered. They say that since there is no #1 then they want #2. They dismiss all others. Personally when I can find limited runs of #4 that is my first choice, but in commercial loadings the #3 is by far the most common of the buckshot choices so its what I typically use.

I want a COMBINATION of knockdown energy AND reasonable penetration. And while I fully believe (based on tests by Massad Ayoob) that both #3 and #4 Buckshot will stop a threat dead in its tracks, I think his points about penetration inside a home must also be factored into the choice of a home defense round. Larger buckshot penetrates deeper. I don't need to blow a hole through an intruder and then through 2 rooms behind him. I'd be very happy to simply have the pellets stop in the bookcase or wall behind the bad guy. Essentially bigger is NOT always better.

Many of us have already agreed that we don't want a 12 gauge with 00 Buckshot, but it seems like your source is implying that "if you are stuck with a 20 gauge then get the closest thing you can get to a 12 gauge." I don't buy that. With my 12 gauges I don't load them with 00 Buck either, I load them with either #3 or #4 Buckshot.

Whatever their reasoning, my findings at the range (with pumpkins & drywall & stuff ) make me happy enough with the choice of #2. I'm sticking with it unless something convinces me that there is a better option for *what works for me*...

 

[melensdad]

What works for you is fine, but I was under the impression that this thread is about a girl who is recoil sensitive and doesn't much like guns.


BTW, looks like I edited at the same time you quoted. I'm not trying to argue with you, just with the logic of presenting something to someone who may not be able to reasonably use a weapon/ammo combination.

 

[Hookeye]

I go smaller still, #4 buffered magnum turkey loads.

 

[JetGirl]

What works for you is fine, but I was under the impression that this thread is about a girl who is recoil sensitive and doesn't much like guns.

Well...although I do like guns, I do not like getting punched in the shoulder.
It's not as bad as some. Soooo...

BTW, looks like I edited at the same time you quoted. I'm not trying to argue with you

Meh.

 

[TAT7]

Shotguns are kinda my thing, if you want to meet me at Profire sometime I can show you different setups and options for your use. It is very possible to have a HD 12g shotgun set up to have less felt recoil than a 20g shotgun. It is hard to argue that a 12g shotgun is not the most versatile weapon we own. The 20g is good and has its place, but is just not on the level of a 12g IMHO. As for recoil, we are talking HD here, not a range gun, so if you can get a setup in 12g that she can manage on the range, then in a situation were her life might depend on it, she will not even notice the recoil or weight. Just my 2 pennies