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.25 ACP--does anyone like this caliber?
- Thread starter Koukalaka
- Start date
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Interesting post on the The Firearm Blog | Gun, Tactical & Hunting News from long ago.
Who said .22’s are not deadly? | The Firearm Blog
Never underestimate a cartridge, the .25 might be weaker than some, but it will still kill you. You dont have to have a 50mm JHP to kill a bad guy, all you need is a gun and the ability to shoot it.
The Raven .25 is the 4th most used gun in crimes, so crooks obviously don't feel underarmed with it.
America's Most Wanted Guns - TIME
Who said .22’s are not deadly? | The Firearm Blog
Never underestimate a cartridge, the .25 might be weaker than some, but it will still kill you. You dont have to have a 50mm JHP to kill a bad guy, all you need is a gun and the ability to shoot it.
The Raven .25 is the 4th most used gun in crimes, so crooks obviously don't feel underarmed with it.
America's Most Wanted Guns - TIME
rimfire_crazed
Master
It just doesn't. Google always works - that's what we all use.
I don't disagree it's used a lot, but this may help in understanding it's stopping power. 25 ACP Stopping Power Then select .22 LR and you'll see its better than the .25 ACP. Of course you'll note if you select other calibers the stopping power increases with cartridge size (addressing handgun). Be sure and select all bullet weights to view the results.
Honestly I would not want to be shot with a .25 ACP.
For those of you equating kinetic energy with stopping power, I've got a deal for you: you can throw a .25 acp pistol at me, and I'll shoot you with it however many rounds the magazine holds. Deal?
I do like what Colonel Jeff Cooper said about .25 acp, though:
For those of you equating kinetic energy with stopping power, I've got a deal for you: you can throw a .25 acp pistol at me, and I'll shoot you with it however many rounds the magazine holds. Deal?
I do like what Colonel Jeff Cooper said about .25 acp, though:
Never overestimate a cartridge either.
Criminal use of a gun, pointing it at innocent unarmed people during the commission of a crime, has a far different expectation of operability, reliability, and terminal ballistics than one that will be used for self defense.
1. The crime gun served its purpose adequately if it just scares the people into giving you want you want. You aren't underarmed if what you have trumps what they have (nothing).
2. The personal protection handgun is being relied upon to make a violent criminal stop his evil ways quickly enough that you or a loved one aren't seriously injured or killed in the process.
No comparison.
Where in the world did you get that idea? There's not a chance it's penetrating 13" in ballistic gel. No way. I read an article about a cell phone stopping the .25.
This argument always irks me. Of course I don't want to get shot with a .25. Don't want to get stabbed with a knife, either, but I don't believe the knife is an effective self defense weapon.
I can't understand why anyone would want a 25acp.
If you are looking for a pistol for plinking the 22lr is a lot better. Price the ammo and you will see.
For self defense this is the worst round you could pick. If you are wanting a small pistol with lite recoil look into the 32acp. I'm not a fun of the 32 but it is a lot better.
If you are looking for a pistol for plinking the 22lr is a lot better. Price the ammo and you will see.
For self defense this is the worst round you could pick. If you are wanting a small pistol with lite recoil look into the 32acp. I'm not a fun of the 32 but it is a lot better.
I can see it now:
Crook with .25 ACP: Give me yo wallet foo!
INGOer: Is that a .25ACP?
Crook: Give me yo wallet be fo I blast ya A$$!
INGOer: That is, isn't it....
Crook: I said now!
INGOer: Lets trade, I've got a .45ACP!
Now GIVE ME your ID.
Crook with .25 ACP: Give me yo wallet foo!
INGOer: Is that a .25ACP?
Crook: Give me yo wallet be fo I blast ya A$$!
INGOer: That is, isn't it....
Crook: I said now!
INGOer: Lets trade, I've got a .45ACP!
Now GIVE ME your ID.
The .32 isn't a bad idea. Pretty small round, but lots more effective than the .25
ChalupaCabras
Expert
He gets that idea from reality, not hearsay:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/CCI Blazer and Sellier and Bellot FMJ.html
This HAS to be a joke. Its not printed in sarcasm purple, but i would like to think that nobody would ACTUALLY believe that throwing something as light as a pocket pistol could possibly compare to being shot with a BULLET.
For those of you still putting the .22 on a pedastal, read this:
North American Arms
That's actual EMPIRICAL data for .22lr in a 2" barrel. You will notice, when you plug those REAL numbers into a ballistic computer, that a CCI Mini Mag has no ballistic advantage to a standard 45grain 25 load. Not even a SINGLE foot pound. Even the mighty Velocitor, for all the hype, produces a measly 9 foot pounds more than a standard 25acp factory load... hand loads for the 25acp can safely exceed 800fps with a 50 grain, and 1000 fps with a 35 grain bullet; exceeding the energy numbers of the Velocitor from the same 2" barrel (see LoadData.com - Ammunition Reloading Data, Supply and Equipment. Over 100k Loads Currently Listed. )
Again, I'm not a 25 user, but to pretend that the 25 is anything less than a deadly weapon is extremely foolish, and sends the wrong message. The data is there to support the 25 as a viable Backup gun, or ultralight carry piece for those who care to LOOK at real world data, and keep an open mind.
A gun is a gun, is a gun. The elitism is foolish. Use what suits you, and learn to shoot it.
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This HAS to be a joke. Its not printed in sarcasm purple, but i would like to think that nobody would ACTUALLY believe that throwing something as light as a pocket pistol could possibly compare to being shot with a BULLET.
I think you're right. Although it's interesting to work out the energy transferred by the two different projectiles, that's only part of the story. A bullet may transfer less energy when fired, compared with the thrown pistol--but that energy will be transferred to a much smaller area, i.e., the area impacted by the bullet rather than a broader, blunt surface of the gun itself.
I guess another example could be a knife. Say you took a knife and pushed it into a person blade first, then flipped it over and pushed using the handle, applying the same exact amount of force each time. Obviously, stabbing someone with the pointy end is going to do more damage, despite the exact same amount of energy transferred. Even if you pushed twice as hard when using the handle, the blade would still be more effective.
Don't get me wrong--I do agree that one should carry the largest caliber that one can reliably and accurately shoot, and successfully conceal, if that is important to the situation. I certainly prefer carrying my Glock or my S&W .357 magnum, compared to a .22 or .25, or .32, etc. But that doesn't mean that a small-caliber gun is useless, or that it would literally be a better weapon when it's simply thrown.
Of course, we also have to consider that the effect of a firearm on its target has a lot to do with the target, too. The physical and psychological conditioning of the target is difficult to assess or predict. And, of course, shot placement is hugely important.
Some people will crumple and give up immediately when hit with a .22 Short; some will try to keep attacking even when hit with multiple shots from a bigger caliber. Of course, in a self-defense scenario, one would want every possible advantage to maximize the chance of mounting a successful defense. But for some applications, a smaller caliber may be appropriate. The smallest gun I carry is my NAA Guardian, chambered in .32NAA (not .32ACP), which I believe is likely to be more effective than the .380 version. But I really only carry this pistol when I feel that I HAVE to pocket carry; if possible I prefer IWB carry of my .357, or my G19 in a paddle holster if I'm wearing more clothing.
My original thought with this thread was that I'd kind of like to have something even smaller than my Guardian for very low-risk situations like mowing my yard. I continue to think about the NAA Pug in this situation; .22 magnum shotshells might be nice to carry against the odd snake or rodent, or regular .22 magnum hollowpoints for coyotes (or mountain lions?--yikes!)
This HAS to be a joke. Its not printed in sarcasm purple, but i would like to think that nobody would ACTUALLY believe that throwing something as light as a pocket pistol could possibly compare to being shot with a BULLET.
I read a few months ago where someone calculated that throwing a baseball at like 90mph has a higher Taylor KO factor than a lot of popular rifle rounds. This is just an example of how to have fun with math and "prove" things that logically make no sense at all. It can be entertaining though.
shawnfox12
Plinker
wow were do u live that u need to wear a gun while u mow your grass lol j/k dont buy a .25 just get a .380 and youll love it
I've had a Raven .25ACP for years, (I know many will poke fun at this). The gun was cheap, the ammo is not. I have always used it as a back-up weapon. It has never jammed or failed to fire, so I consider it to be quite reliable. I do agree with some of the other posts, that a .22 may be a better way to go.
