2nd Amendment Applies to Illegal Immigrants

[Light]

7th Circuit Court ruling that the 2nd Amendment applies to everyone within the US, regardless of immigration status.
Contradicts federal law.

I realize that this is not a supreme court ruling, but it is interesting.

7th Circuit Court: Illegal Immigrants Have Second Amendment Rights Too - Breitbart

 

[Denny347]

7th Circuit Court ruling that the 2nd Amendment applies to everyone within the US, regardless of immigration status.
Contradicts federal law.

I realize that this is not a supreme court ruling, but it is interesting.

7th Circuit Court: Illegal Immigrants Have Second Amendment Rights Too - Breitbart

Do they not enjoy the other Constitutional Amendments as well? Free speech, cruel and unusual punishment, ect. It's either all or nothing isn't it?

 

[miguel]

I will put on my hippie hat and say, "It's a human right!"

 

[Denny347]

I will put on my hippie hat and say, "It's a human right!"

Indeed, and do we not push this on other governments? I think some here tout these as a US CITIZEN right.

 

[HoughMade]

Do they not enjoy the other Constitutional Amendments as well? Free speech, cruel and unusual punishment, ect. It's either all or nothing isn't it?

Screw 'em. They walked over a line. Apparently they became non-human when they did that.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Screw 'em. They walked over a line. Apparently they became non-human when they did that.

They invaded our country. Why would any of our laws apply to them? If not apprehended and dealt with, they might as well just run wild.

 

[Denny347]

They invaded our country. Why would any of our laws apply to them? If not apprehended and dealt with, they might as well just run wild.

We do not have the money nor the resources to "round" them all up and deport them. If the government REALLY wanted to stem the flow of illegals, they'd attack the draw...our businesses that hire them. But while they are here, they enjoy ALL the protections guaranteed to them by the document that we hold so dear to us. Because if we really believed what is written on it, then this question becomes unnecessary.

 

[Libertarian01]

We do not have the money nor the resources to "round" them all up and deport them. If the government REALLY wanted to stem the flow of illegals, they'd attack the draw...our businesses that hire them. But while they are here, they enjoy ALL the protections guaranteed to them by the document that we hold so dear to us. Because if we really believed what is written on it, then this question becomes unnecessary.

Wouldn't you just LOVE to see an itemized tax for stuff like this!?!? "Hey Ya'll, yer income tax just went up 18% with NO RIGHTOFFS just to pay for roundin' up illegals. This'll include ALL income including social seecurity, cap'tal gain, welfar' an' deesability. You'uns should be sein' much smaller paychecks next week. But hey, we're fully funded now. Thankee much!"

Regards,

Doug

 

[Denny347]

Wouldn't you just LOVE to see an itemized tax for stuff like this!?!? "Hey Ya'll, yer income tax just went up 18% with NO RIGHTOFFS just to pay for roundin' up illegals. This'll include ALL income including social seecurity, cap'tal gain, welfar' an' deesability. You'uns should be sein' much smaller paychecks next week. But hey, we're fully funded now. Thankee much!"

Regards,

Doug

Ha, no kidding. Example: Trump tells his supporters this but refuses to detail the HOW it will be carried out/funded. It's easy to say, it's nearly impossible to do.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Isn't an "Illegal Immigrant" by definition a criminal perpetrator?

Sooooo even criminals have gun rights. No more sentencing guidelines concerning crimes committed while armed, a person actively engaged in criminal behavior (such as perhaps, flaunting immigration laws) has a natural right to do so while armed.

We can be in a place where it's illegal to be while armed! Maybe take the rap for being there, but possessing the gun while doing so is a freebie! Try it at school......Or the courthouse........ Federal bldg........ Prison property.......Etc.......

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Isn't an "Illegal Immigrant" by definition a criminal perpetrator?

Sooooo even criminals have gun rights. No more sentencing guidelines concerning crimes committed while armed, a person actively engaged in criminal behavior (such as perhaps, flaunting immigration laws) has a natural right to do so while armed.

We can be in a place where it's illegal to be while armed! Maybe take the rap for being there, but possessing the gun while doing so is a freebie! Try it at school......Or the courthouse........ Federal bldg........ Prison property.......Etc.......

I was all set to agree with you. It was real close to what I was going to post myself. Then I looked it up. Unlawful entry is a freaking misdemeanor and overstaying a visa or the like is a civil penalty only. I had no idea. Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence - FindLaw Blotter

Anyway, the rest of what I was going to say still works. Asking if illegal aliens have 2nd amendment rights is the wrong question. The correct question is why is it an issue when they should be sent back to their own country once detected and proven to be here illegally if legal residency cannot be established (ie, paperwork snafu that needs to be corrected, etc.).

 

[Sticky]

Nope. No 2nd amendment rights for criminals violating federal (or other) laws in the U.S. Not for an illegal alien. Just reduce the problem by deporting with increasing penalties. It was done very well in the 1950's.

Stopping and dissuading illegal aliens from border crossings would be much easier now, than it was when done successfully in the 1950's. Here's how Ike did it (linked article dated 2006). Deporting would be far less expensive than supporting them with all the free goodies. Such as:



EDIT: Illegal immigration used to be a misdemeanor (prolly still is?). However, many/most illegal aliens violate False Personation of a U.S. Citizen (18 U.S.C. § 911) and Social Security Fraud (42 U.S.C. § 408) in order to obtain work; both are felonies.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Nope. No 2nd amendment rights for criminals violating federal (or other) laws in the U.S. Not for an illegal alien. Just reduce the problem by deporting with increasing penalties. It was done very well in the 1950's.

Stopping and dissuading illegal aliens from border crossings would be much easier now, than it was when done successfully in the 1950's. Here's how Ike did it (linked article dated 2006). Deporting would be far less expensive than supporting them with all the free goodies. Such as:

View attachment 40922

EDIT: Illegal immigration used to be a misdemeanor (prolly still is?). However, many/most illegal aliens violate False Personation of a U.S. Citizen (18 U.S.C. § 911) and Social Security Fraud (42 U.S.C. § 408) in order to obtain work; both are felonies.

Ah, thanks for the info.

 

[AA&E]

We do not have the money nor the resources to "round" them all up and deport them. If the government REALLY wanted to stem the flow of illegals, they'd attack the draw...our businesses that hire them. But while they are here, they enjoy ALL the protections guaranteed to them by the document that we hold so dear to us. Because if we really believed what is written on it, then this question becomes unnecessary.

Any other laws that are too expensive to uphold? Hell, why not become a nation of lawlessness in the name of fiscal conservatism?

 

[AA&E]

Isn't an "Illegal Immigrant" by definition a criminal perpetrator?

Sooooo even criminals have gun rights. No more sentencing guidelines concerning crimes committed while armed, a person actively engaged in criminal behavior (such as perhaps, flaunting immigration laws) has a natural right to do so while armed.

We can be in a place where it's illegal to be while armed! Maybe take the rap for being there, but possessing the gun while doing so is a freebie! Try it at school......Or the courthouse........ Federal bldg........ Prison property.......Etc.......

Reasonable argument IMO. Violating sovereign national boundaries should be viewed as a serious crime, it is in virtually every other nation on this planet.

 

[Denny347]

Isn't an "Illegal Immigrant" by definition a criminal perpetrator?

Sooooo even CONVICTED criminals have gun rights. No more sentencing guidelines concerning crimes committed while armed, a person actively engaged in criminal behavior (such as perhaps, flaunting immigration laws) has a natural right to do so while armed.

We can be in a place where it's illegal to be while armed! Maybe take the rap for being there, but possessing the gun while doing so is a freebie! Try it at school......Or the courthouse........ Federal bldg........ Prison property.......Etc.......

You mean CONVICTED right?

 

[Denny347]

Nope. No 2nd amendment rights for criminals CONVICTED OF violating federal (or other) laws in the U.S. Not for an illegal alien. Just reduce the problem by deporting with increasing penalties. It was done very well in the 1950's.

Stopping and dissuading illegal aliens from border crossings would be much easier now, than it was when done successfully in the 1950's. Here's how Ike did it (linked article dated 2006). Deporting would be far less expensive than supporting them with all the free goodies. Such as:

View attachment 40922

EDIT: Illegal immigration used to be a misdemeanor (prolly still is?). However, many/most illegal aliens violate False Personation of a U.S. Citizen (18 U.S.C. § 911) and Social Security Fraud (42 U.S.C. § 408) in order to obtain work; both are felonies.

FIFY

 

[Denny347]

Any other laws that are too expensive to uphold? Hell, why not become a nation of lawlessness in the name of fiscal conservatism?

Am I wrong? 12-13 million illegals in the US, maybe more. Finding them, housing them, legal processing, transporting them, all requires time and manpower. It is estimated that it would cost DHS 200 Billion to accomplish this and 17 Billion every year thereafter to continue this effort. I have yet to hear a plan to pay for this. Sure, there is lots of chest pounding but that is about as far as any politician will go as THEY even know that they cannot follow through with what they are saying.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...ed-immigrants-would-cost-billions-immigration

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...se-against-enforcing-immigration-laws/387004/

https://www.americanprogress.org/wp.../2010/03/pdf/cost_of_deportation_execsumm.pdf

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/po...could-cost-as-much-as-25-billion-report-says/

 

[eatsnopaste]

If you can't keep our borders from being the porous line it is now, then talk of sending people back is ridiculous. If we can slow the illegal crossings then we can start to make some valued judgements on who can stay and possibly become valued American citizens. Those arrested and convicted or those caught who have been deported once before get an automatic return. Those who have led productive, non-criminal (except for being here of course) get evaluated and a determination made. We don't have to spend a huge amount to do it all at one (deport) it can be a gradual process and as long as we are deporting those who are a detriment to our society then I look at it as a WIN. Immigrants built this country and immigrants will continue to strengthen it!

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

I was all set to agree with you. It was real close to what I was going to post myself. Then I looked it up. Unlawful entry is a freaking misdemeanor and overstaying a visa or the like is a civil penalty only. I had no idea. Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence - FindLaw Blotter

Anyway, the rest of what I was going to say still works. Asking if illegal aliens have 2nd amendment rights is the wrong question. The correct question is why is it an issue when they should be sent back to their own country once detected and proven to be here illegally if legal residency cannot be established (ie, paperwork snafu that needs to be corrected, etc.).

"Johnny law shoots armchair lawyer down in flames, news at 11!"

It's only an infraction to cross and continue to reside without documentation? If that's true then it's not really worth the trouble enforcing. In the words of Roseanne Rosannadanna, "NEVERMIND!"....... Now I have to wonder why we have a complete police dept. (border patrol) just to enforce what are essentially traffic violations. No, not even that because a speeder could potentially hurt somebody. Crossing the desert in the dark could only hurt themselves, why spend the money?

You mean CONVICTED right?

Well........ I don't know, I'm not the lawyer. I'm thinking that a guy actively and continually engaged in a criminal activity is a criminal, right? An Officer does not apprehend perpetrators CONVICTED of crimes, they are arresting them being SUSPECTED of crimes. The increased sentencing guidelines provide for extra penalty for holding a firearm while in COMMISSION of a crime, which is an action being done long before the CONVICTION of said crime. Seems like an "ex post facto" law from the get-go, modifying a conviction based on action taken that was legal BEFORE the conviction, as evidenced in the OP. Wasn't the OP saying that illegal aliens (a person actively and continually engaged in illegal activity) has the right to keep and bear arms? Even while by definition being a criminal? I'll go back and read it again.