.300WM Hunting Rifle: 700 5R or Tikka T3x?

[Dirty Steve]

Quote: "I need to see what their sub-MOA guarantee really means, because I have 200rds of Winchester deer season copper (leadless) 150gr ammo that I'd REALLY like to shoot sub-MOA with whatever I get, so I don't have to pull it down and mess with the loading of it. (turned out that I could buy the loaded ammo cheaper than the components to make it, because it's on sale at Midway right now)"

Not to be a tool, but let me get this straight, you are looking for a new rifle because you have 200 rounds of ammo which this rifle (whatever you buy) may or may not shoot worth a crap. A 150 gr bullet is light for caliber in 300 win mag. I'd be willing to bet it will shoot 180 gr or heavier bullet better. Your logic seems bass-akwards to me. I'd buy the rifle first and then find what ammo it will shoot rather than then try to fit a rifle to ammo I already bought. That being said, my MOD 12 Savages shoot very well in 300 WSM and .243.

Dirty Steve

 

[bartonmd]

Quote: "I need to see what their sub-MOA guarantee really means, because I have 200rds of Winchester deer season copper (leadless) 150gr ammo that I'd REALLY like to shoot sub-MOA with whatever I get, so I don't have to pull it down and mess with the loading of it. (turned out that I could buy the loaded ammo cheaper than the components to make it, because it's on sale at Midway right now)"

Not to be a tool, but let me get this straight, you are looking for a new rifle because you have 200 rounds of ammo which this rifle (whatever you buy) may or may not shoot worth a crap. A 150 gr bullet is light for caliber in 300 win mag. I'd be willing to bet it will shoot 180 gr or heavier bullet better. Your logic seems bass-akwards to me. I'd buy the rifle first and then find what ammo it will shoot rather than then try to fit a rifle to ammo I already bought. That being said, my MOD 12 Savages shoot very well in 300 WSM and .243.

Dirty Steve

It's cool, I don't take myself very seriously, or take offense to the above. It looks a little like that on the surface, yes. However, I generally prefer to run lighter/faster bullets for whitetails, because they dump more energy in less space, in an animal, as opposed to a slower/heavier bullet that carries more energy out the other side and doesn't dump as much inside the animal. If I've got to pull these down and search for a node, I'm not really opposed to that, just given the price of components and what I paid for this ammo. I'd just rather not, because of time. Job, little kids, side business, etc. Generally speaking, because of the barrel harmonics, yes, a heavy barrel will be more likely to shoot well with a wider variety of bullet weights/speeds, but also, if I do have to work up a load for it, the heavier barrels, by nature, have a wider node than the thinner barrels, and therefore, are less sensitive to temperature changes if I end up using a temperature sensitive powder (I try to use the Hodgen "extreme" powders, because they're very temperature stable, but sometimes it doesn't work out like that), and are dramatically less sensitive to changes in how the rifle is held (pointing left or right from a stand/blind, on a tripod, held against a tree, etc.). I'm not going to buy a rifle in 1:12 twist just for these bullets or anything, but if it shoots them well, great. If it doesn't, I bought a bunch of components already-together for cheaper than I could buy them separately, and I have to pull them down, toss the powder, and load develop. If the rifle I get REALLY doesn't like 150gr (150gr copper are of similar length to 165gr lead, so if a barrel likes 165 lead, I've seen them also like lighter-weight coppers), then I'll use the bullets (that I got cheap for what they are) in my .308 and develop some loads with the partial boxes of 165 TTSX, GMX, and cavity-back bullets I've got. As a for-instance, as well, my dad's 700 in .308 from the 80's, with a heavy barrel he had put on it in the mid-90's, shoots sub-MOA from 110gr up to 180gr, with the right loads. If I hadn't found the deal on the loaded ammo, I wasn't going to buy a bunch of boxes of different ammo, anyway. I was going to buy components and load develop.

Mike

 

[two70]

It doesn't require MOA accuracy to kill a deer nor is MOA accuracy likely from most hunting positions/rests. It is not the bullet, the barrel, or typically the rifle that are the biggest accuracy limiting factors while hunting. If all of that minutiae gives you more confidence, then great but is still minutiae.

By the way bartonmd, if you decide to go the monometal route on bullets I would recommend Nosler E-tips over Hornady GMX. Having shot both in several different calibers, the E-tips seem to be higher quality and more accurate (and yes, that is splitting hairs). Check Shooters Pro Shop for good deals on blemished and overstocked bullets at great prices. I still prefer Barnes for really serious work but the E-tips are more than good enough for deer up to medium game and are much cheaper from SPS.

 

[bartonmd]

It doesn't require MOA accuracy to kill a deer nor is MOA accuracy likely from most hunting positions/rests. It is not the bullet, the barrel, or typically the rifle that are the biggest accuracy limiting factors while hunting. If all of that minutiae gives you more confidence, then great but is still minutiae.

By the way bartonmd, if you decide to go the monometal route on bullets I would recommend Nosler E-tips over Hornady GMX. Having shot both in several different calibers, the E-tips seem to be higher quality and more accurate (and yes, that is splitting hairs). Check Shooters Pro Shop for good deals on blemished and overstocked bullets at great prices. I still prefer Barnes for really serious work but the E-tips are more than good enough for deer up to medium game and are much cheaper from SPS.

At 100-200, I agree with you. There's a ~5" circle on a deer that is a good, quick, ethical kill, that isn't far enough forward to destroy a ton of shoulder meat. The farthest common deer shot I've got is 325yrds in either end of the lower field, and 430 in the upper field. At 1MOA, that's 4.3" of my 5" circle, with no other errors. Mind you, I'm not taking that shot off-hand, or in anything bigger than a light breeze. I'm in a chair, in a blind, with a tripod. It's very nearly as good as a bench, as long as I've got the time to get positioned with my elbow on the arm rest and my shoulder against the back of the chair. I'm definitely not Chris Kyle or anything, but I've been shooting NRA hipower since I was 13 (I'm 37), off and on (not during college, not in the last 3 years, since kids) and would be well into the master classification if the yearly Garand matches didn't count toward your average( my rack grade CMP garand needs a barrel). It may be minutiae, but ounces make pounds, so to speak, and while I don't claim to be a world-class shooter or anything, I'm quite a ways from your average Joe deer hunter.

I've always found the Barnes to be the most accurate of the leadless, in my rifles (.458, .308, 30-06, and both my 6.8's), and have been hunting with them for 7-8 years, now (starting in the 458, before any of the other were legal in IN). I tried the e-tips in the 6.8 but didn't get any for the .308 because the Barnes shot so well. I normally get stuff like that (onesie twosies) from Midway, but I'll check out SPS for them, thanks!

Mike

 

[bartonmd]

Depending on the options you select, I bet you could get real close to the $1k mark with a custom Bergara. There's also the option of an ER Shaw custom rifle on a Savage action.

The ER Shaw is close, like I mentioned, but I just heard back from Bergara's custom shop. The custom shop guns range from $3200 to $4500.

Mike

 

[sheepdog697]

+1 for tikka. factory barrels are INSANE

 

[two70]

The ER Shaw is close, like I mentioned, but I just heard back from Bergara's custom shop. The custom shop guns range from $3200 to $4500.

Mike

Holy Crap! That's full custom price for what appears to be a semi-custom product.

 

[Dirty Steve]

For what it's worth, there is a used 300WM Sendero on the Longrangehunting.com forum now for $900. Only 125 rounds down the tube. That's a decent deal and every Sendero I have had has shot well. Of course you know they are stainless and come with the HSP stock. Seems to me that fits your needs as described.

Dirty Steve

 

[bartonmd]

Holy Crap! That's full custom price for what appears to be a semi-custom product.

Yeah, it is! He said they literally hand assemble, and I imagine hand pick the stuff closest to the center of the tolerances, their normal production barrels and receivers.

Mike

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[bartonmd]

For what it's worth, there is a used 300WM Sendero on the Longrangehunting.com forum now for $900. Only 125 rounds down the tube. That's a decent deal and every Sendero I have had has shot well. Of course you know they are stainless and come with the HSP stock. Seems to me that fits your needs as described.

Dirty Steve

That's like $150 off of new (from Bud's), if you count the shipping, but that would solve the problem of the Remington crap shoot, by at least knowing what rifle one is getting. I'll check it out.

Thanks
Mike

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[two70]

I'm not sure if the barrel profile on this Sako A7 is as heavy as you want but this is not a bad deal on a stainless .300 Mag.

 

[bartonmd]

I'm not sure if the barrel profile on this Sako A7 is as heavy as you want but this is not a bad deal on a stainless .300 Mag.

Maybe not quiiiiite as heavy as ideal, but being a sako, full length bedded, SS, and with a brake for $900... Probably about the same weight as the #3 Accuguard barrel from Weatherby.

The A7 range is also an option with the heavy barrel, also for $900 or so (if I can find one in stock), but that just adds $100 for cerakote (assuming it's blued, not some other finish. Having trouble finding that info, right now).

Thanks,
Mike

 

[bartonmd]

Found their PDF on the A7 Range. It's a matte blued finish, so not much rust protection there.

I really do want to thank you! I didn't even know the A7 series existed!

Mike

 

[bartonmd]

Just ordered the Sako A7 stainless linked above. Everybody else was out of stock on them, and euroOptik said they were clearing them out, as well.

THANK YOU!

Mike

 

[two70]

You're welcome!

 

[bartonmd]

Got the rifle. Shot it today. Time for some load development with the TTSX 165, cavity back, accubonds, and game Kings. I'll try using these bullets with the .308 or something, because this barrel does NOT like 150's!

Without the brake, recoil was a little sharp, but totally doable with it! I was expecting something near 3.5 turkey loads, but it's not even close. I didn't want to shoot much more after 20rds, the last 10 without the brake, but it wasn't horrible.

Mike

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[two70]

That's a very nice looking rifle!

 

[Hohn]

Nice Rifle!

Brakes of that design are pretty inefficient. I'd recommend a more effective brake like the JP units. Same blast, way less recoil.

I'd be interested to see how accurate the heavier accubonds are for you.

 

[bartonmd]

That's a very nice looking rifle!

Thanks! I really like it, as well!

Mike

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[bartonmd]

Nice Rifle!

Brakes of that design are pretty inefficient. I'd recommend a more effective brake like the JP units. Same blast, way less recoil.

I'd be interested to see how accurate the heavier accubonds are for you.

Yeah, it's not nearly as efficient as the Miculek brake I have on an AR, but this one takes enough of the sharp impulse down while not being substantially louder to me while I shoot it. My Miculek brake makes my AR MUCH louder to the shooter. While long range shots, I'll have time to out ears on, I could see some situations where I wouldn't have the time to do so.

Mike

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk