.308 relaod better than Gold Medal Match?

[Kramerr]

Anyone got a Load combo they believe to out perform Federal Gold Medal Match in .308

 

[shibumiseeker]

Yes, because loads carefully handloaded to match your barrel are almost always better than factory ammunition. If you are asking if MY load will work better in YOUR gun, I can't answer that.

 

[redneckmedic]

As stated above, YES, anytime you control the variables, and match a load to your rifle it should always out preform factory loads. Length: different rifles like different jump to the lands. Charge, some like it hot, some like 10% from max, so on. Case prep, I would be willing to bet that the steps a hand loader goes into case prep isn't mirrored at the factory. Bullet selection, case selection, powder selection, primer selection. But the biggest IMO is the deviation amongst rounds. You know that when hand loading, factory has a built in allowable deviation.

 

[Yeah]

Outperform how?

The only thing I shoot in my 308s these days is a 155 Scenar going 2955 fps, and it crushes FGMM in drift and drop.

It also beats it in groups, but seeing as Federal has no idea where the lands are in any of my rifles that isn't a mean feat.

 

[Leo]

In the crazy world of competitive shooting, precision reloads are part of the game. My case prep was like this:
1) Buy 1000 brand new factory brass
2) Size, trim, and debur the flash holes.
3) weigh them all, seperating into lots with no more than 5 gr difference, this eliminates pressure changing interior volume differences that will vary velocity.
4) throw away the lightest 10 percent and the heaviest 10 percent of the 1000 pieces.
5) Load ammo, with a powder that fills the whole case interior.
6) weigh and trickle up every powder charge using a good scale
7) Use premium bullets, like Sierra Matchkings
8) keeping ammo divided in lots, use a "V" block and dial indicator to measure for case vs. bullet concentricity. .000" to .001" use for 1000 yard. .002" to .004" use for 600 yard. .005" to ,008" use for anything else. .010" and looser, use for 200 yard and practice, marking the brass to be never used for match use again.

I was able to build ammo with single digit velocity spreads, thus eliminating elevation changes hurting the score on a registered target.

Please note, that the best Federal Gold Medal Match I ever bought was all over .010" out of concentricity.

This is bench rester technique. Many of them actually go farther with custom barrel throats that require case neck machining and soft bullet seating so that the bullet is engaged in the rifing and the neck is almost a press fit into the chamber when loading, not possible on a semi auto or other repeater rifles.

This is what is needed when dependable 3/4 moa shooting needs to become dependable sub 1/2 moa. As with all shooting, things that are tough to measure at 100 yards, really open up after 500.

 

[Aszerigan]

4) throw away the lightest 10 percent and the heaviest 10 percent of the 1000 pieces.

Can I have your address? I want to go through your trash.

 

[teddy12b]

Anyone got a Load combo they believe to out perform Federal Gold Medal Match in .308

Depends on what you really want out of the gun. In my case I'm using a DPMS 308B. It's a 18" heavy barreled AR platform in 308. I tested with federal GMM and got less than 1/2" at 100 yards. I was in a similar boat and wanted to copy the ammo so I'd have the quality without the cost if at all possible.

The bullets they use are the sierra matcking's and I'm going to assume you're talking about the 168gr load. Now that you know your bullet you've got the first step out of the way. From that, there's an infinite amount of brass, powder, powder weights, and primer combinations, but there are some details you can copy from the factory ammo, if it applies like the overal length. For instance, in my 308 I had planned on loading the rounds longer for better accuracy, but I'm limited in this gun because of magazine dimensions. The federal ammo shot so well that I decided to setup my reloading dies off one of the live rounds so I'd be seating the bullets to a depth that I'd already seen amazing results from.

I know a lot of guys who have used varget powder in their quest to copy the fed GMM ammo and I happen to be one of them. Before working up a load in my gun, I read from a couple sources that 43.0gr of varget was the best load in their guns. Upon working the load in my own rifle I also just happened to find that was the best group in my rifle as well.

My fed gmm 168gr 308 copy load is remington brass, winchester primers, 43.0gr of varget, and a 168gr sierra matchkings set to the same depth as the factory Fed GMM. This load is safe by any book I've ever seen, but work up to it slowly. In my gun this load is right at a 1/2" at 100 yards. If you want better than that you're going to have to go through the benchrest requirements listed above.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Can I have your address? I want to go through your trash.

I was thinking the same thing.

There's the rule of thumb that 90% of results takes 10% of the effort and the last 10% takes 90% of the effort.

In my own quest to become a precision shooter, I'm not as much interested in the extremes the benchrest crowd goes through in getting the smallest group possible. I'm more interested in the practical precision shooter end of "can I hit this target on the first shot."

 

[tenring]

I kept reading about 8208XBR on the Hide, so I got a jug of it when Graf's had a special and only got out for 20 shots before the weather started getting nasty last fall. 1st two groups were about an inch [175SMK] and taking my time. Got PO'd and cranked of two, fast 5 shot groups and behold, they were around the half inch mark. Got to looking at old targets and notes, and find that when I really settle in and take my time, groups always open up but stay at and inch or just under [go figure]. Haven't done the 168SMK yet but FYI the so far load is:

LC94M cases [852]
GM210M Primers
42.0/IMR8208XBR Powder
175SMK
2,802 COAL

Cases were twice fired [by me], pockets cleaned with Sinclair tool, used a RCBS neck sizer die, with no expander ball for increased neck tension, after I had a friend in a machine shop turn down the top of my shell holder so I could have some a bit of shoulder bump, same time had him do a shell holder for .223 [spend too much time learning tricks on the Hide]. So far I've had no problems chambering with either my .308 or .223 [Murphy's law coming?] and the short cuts sure make reloading a lot easier and quicker, given that I'm on the wrong side of 60 and getting lazy.
BTW, don't laugh when someone [Natchez] offers DATA powder for a very low price. Several years ago they had a lot of 2230C powder, and after reading up on it, I broke the bank and got two cases [64 lbs.] and still have a bunch left. With 40.5 grains and a 175SMK, 6's and 7's are the norm, with a lot of 3's and 4's with the always present flyer, and with 44.0 and a 168SMK, 5's are common. In my .223, 24.5 and a 77SMK gives 2975 at the muzzle, and if the groups are over the 5's, it's the age, bad eyes, and a touch of Arthur I blame it on. An all that powder came to my back porch at just under 11 bucks a pound, better that interest at the bank. I got 6 jugs of CMR100 [Canadian equivalent of 4895] from Jeff Bartlett back during the pull down days, that was right at 10 bucks a pound at my back door. That usually goes in my M1A. Fingers tired, that is all.

 

[Aszerigan]

I kept reading about 8208XBR on the Hide, so I got a jug of it when Graf's had a special and ...

I've been wary to try this powder. I've read alot of good reviews, but the pressure spikes on ignition are significantly higher than other powders for the same cartridge, sometimes up to 10,000psi higher.

Things that make you go... Hmmmmm......

I'll certainly never tell someone not to use something that works, so if it works for you, excellent! Like I mentioned, my trepidation is from my observations of printed data, not real world experience.

 

[Leo]

Tenring brings up a good point about adjusting the shell holder to change the adjustment of the Sizing die.
Redding makes a "competition shellholder set" that is a set of 5 different thickness shell holders that will help you fine tune ammo to a tight chambered rifle. It sounds like a silly thing until you understand what they accomplish. They worked well with a M1A Supermatch, I think they make them for the .223 also. Good Luck.

 

[1$Chuck]

Depends on what you really want out of the gun. In my case I'm using a DPMS 308B. It's a 18" heavy barreled AR platform in 308. I tested with federal GMM and got less than 1/2" at 100 yards. I was in a similar boat and wanted to copy the ammo so I'd have the quality without the cost if at all possible.

The bullets they use are the sierra matcking's and I'm going to assume you're talking about the 168gr load. Now that you know your bullet you've got the first step out of the way. From that, there's an infinite amount of brass, powder, powder weights, and primer combinations, but there are some details you can copy from the factory ammo, if it applies like the overal length. For instance, in my 308 I had planned on loading the rounds longer for better accuracy, but I'm limited in this gun because of magazine dimensions. The federal ammo shot so well that I decided to setup my reloading dies off one of the live rounds so I'd be seating the bullets to a depth that I'd already seen amazing results from.

I know a lot of guys who have used varget powder in their quest to copy the fed GMM ammo and I happen to be one of them. Before working up a load in my gun, I read from a couple sources that 43.0gr of varget was the best load in their guns. Upon working the load in my own rifle I also just happened to find that was the best group in my rifle as well.

My fed gmm 168gr 308 copy load is remington brass, winchester primers, 43.0gr of varget, and a 168gr sierra matchkings set to the same depth as the factory Fed GMM. This load is safe by any book I've ever seen, but work up to it slowly. In my gun this load is right at a 1/2" at 100 yards. If you want better than that you're going to have to go through the benchrest requirements listed above.

My reloading is a lot along the same lines as yours. I bought some Fed GMM to start with and it shot well for me but I wasn't going to continue paying those prices. Part of the reason I wanted .308 was the use of known military loads and components, so I'm using stuff that is pretty well documented in the M852 and M118LR ammo. My goal is to create loads that shoot as well, if not better than GMM as cheap and efficiently as possible.

I pulled a GMM to weigh the load inside, I came up with 42.5 grains. I've heard that they use IMR4064 so thats what I use in Federal cases with a 168 smk. I bought a bunch of M118lr brass and I backed off .5 grain since the cases are thicker and that seams about right. I can shoot either load with no noticeable change in point of impact at 100 yds. I have no complains with the 4064 and its cheaper than Varget.

Like you, my initial thoughts were in sticking the bullets out farther to gain accuracy but thus far I've been matching the GMM seat depth and the ammo & rifle are more accurate than me so until that changes (need more practice) I'm leaving it alone.

 

[teddy12b]

My reloading is a lot along the same lines as yours. I bought some Fed GMM to start with and it shot well for me but I wasn't going to continue paying those prices. Part of the reason I wanted .308 was the use of known military loads and components, so I'm using stuff that is pretty well documented in the M852 and M118LR ammo. My goal is to create loads that shoot as well, if not better than GMM as cheap and efficiently as possible.

I pulled a GMM to weigh the load inside, I came up with 42.5 grains. I've heard that they use IMR4064 so thats what I use in Federal cases with a 168 smk. I bought a bunch of M118lr brass and I backed off .5 grain since the cases are thicker and that seams about right. I can shoot either load with no noticeable change in point of impact at 100 yds. I have no complains with the 4064 and its cheaper than Varget.

Like you, my initial thoughts were in sticking the bullets out farther to gain accuracy but thus far I've been matching the GMM seat depth and the ammo & rifle are more accurate than me so until that changes (need more practice) I'm leaving it alone.

It's scary how great minds can think alike. I read this and laughed because I also pulled Fed GMM bullet and weighed the powder. I didn't write down what the weight was though, and in hind sight I should have. I just know that the powder definately wasn't varget when i compared the two side by side. Then.... being the frugal cheap arse that I am, I put all the powder back in, seated the bullet and put it all back together to be shot at the range.

I'd read a lot of good things about 4064 and it was a coin toss between what two powders to use starting up the load. The varget worked pretty good so I stayed with it, but if it hadn't I'd have been buying some 4064.

 

[1$Chuck]

Then.... being the frugal cheap arse that I am, I put all the powder back in, seated the bullet and put it all back together to be shot at the range.

Well yeah, of course I did the same thing. That powder looked just like the 4064 but I suppose most extruded powder would. I splurged and bought an RCBS charge-master to meter out the loads. I wouldn't to run that stuff through a powder drop and hand trickle those long extrusions.

I've mentioned this before on some other threads, but one of the things I do to help my make reloading easier is that after I deprime my spent brass, I soak it for 2 hours in a solution of the works. 4 parts water to 1 parts "The Works". It cleans them inside and out, and breaks ups any chunks left from the primers. I tumble in walnut shells and then the cases are clean and I don't have to clean primer pockets.

 

[j706]

Lots of different combination's that can shoot as good a a little better than GMM. But GMM has never failed to amaze me at how well it shoots it pretty much anything.

 

[teddy12b]

Well yeah, of course I did the same thing. That powder looked just like the 4064 but I suppose most extruded powder would. I splurged and bought an RCBS charge-master to meter out the loads. I wouldn't to run that stuff through a powder drop and hand trickle those long extrusions.

I've mentioned this before on some other threads, but one of the things I do to help my make reloading easier is that after I deprime my spent brass, I soak it for 2 hours in a solution of the works. 1 part water to 4 parts "The Works". It cleans them inside and out, and breaks ups any chunks left from the primers. I tumble in walnut shells and then the cases are clean and I don't have to clean primer pockets.

I'm using a RCBS chargemaster combo too. I bought it when I was still using the RCBS rock chucker kit. Currently I'm running a Dillon 550B put instead of using the powder meter I just use the chargemaster in that stations so I know it's exactly the right weight every time.

You have an interesting process for cleaning your brass. I just use corn media and run the brass way too long. These days I don't clean out the primer pockets or worry about them anymore at all. I've tried the liquid solutions, but they just got ot be too much of a pain for me and I just decided to leave the brass in the tumbler for more than I need to.

 

[1$Chuck]

I'm still using a rock chucker... well actually several of them so I don't have to change setups.

I don't mind the liquid but I hated cleaning primer pockets. I like that the residue on the inside will be taken care of too. Should help in keeping case pressure uniform.

Kinda cool, the residue will fizz when you drop them down in the mix. Lets you know its working! I pour the mix off of them and rinse them with water and throw them right in the tumbler wet. Doesn't take long and the media will dry them off and the wet clumps will disappear.

 

[billybob44]

Me too!!

Can I have your address? I want to go through your trash.

Hay Aszerigan, to me that amounts to 200 cases of new brass out of each 1000 that he loads?? I could use some of that "Trash Brass" in my Rem. 700 Varmint.