35 Remington 1.8 - some comments and info

[Dwight D]

I have been messing around with the 35 Rem shortened to 1.8 and shooting it in a Marlin 336. Have been very happy with results both in the field on deer and the range. I have come to prefer the 200 gr soft nose bullets over the 180 gr speer, as the 200 gr bullets seem to shoot a little more accurately out of the 2 rifles I have tried it in and also have very good expansion on deer. The increase in velocity and flattened trajectory of the 180 is offset by the loading being a little less accurate and this bullet seems a little hard, and while it does expand on deer, the terminal damage is not as substantial as when using the 200 gr soft point. Anyway here is some data I gathered and hopefully some may find it useful. Thanks for all the help I received on this forum the last 2 years as I have been working with the 35 Rem and 45-70 1.8 versions.
CHRONOGRAPH RESULTS 35 Remington 1.8

DATE 9/13/14

TIME: 0800-1030

TEMP: 49 DEGREES F. TO 56 DEGREES F.

HUMIDITY: 62%

PRESS: 30.08

LIGHT: SUNNY TO PARTLY CLOUDY

BULLET: 35 CAL, 200 GR FEDERAL HYDRA SHOK

PRIMER: FEDERAL

PARENT CASE: FEDERAL

POWDER: ** THIS WAS MEX-MATCH FROM FACTORY FED HYDRA SHOK,PULLED BULLET, TRIMMED, AND PUT THE POWDER RIGHT BACK IN, IT WAS AN UNIDENTIFIED IMR POWDER AND THE CHARGE WAS 35 GR

CASE LENGTH: 1.785

OAL: SEATED TO CANNELURE

CRIMP: MODERATE CRIMP IN CANELURE, OBTAINED BY REMOVING THE COLLET FROM A LEE FACTORY CRIMP DIE, AND SHORTENING THE BOTTOM FACE OF IT .120, THEN RE-INSTALLING COLLET IN DIE, AND SET UP AND ADJUST TO CRIMP AS USUAL.

RIFLE: MARLIN 336C/ ZEISS CONQUEST 3X9

DISTANCE FROM MUZZLE TO CENTER OF CHRONOGRAPH: 10 FEET

CHRONOGRAPH: PRO CHRONO “PAL”





CHRONOGRAPHED VELOCITIES

SHOT 1 1975
SHOT 2 1946
SHOT 3 1990
SHOT 4 1978
SHOT 5 1924
AVG- 1962 MAX DEV – 66


NO SIGNS OF PRESSURE, RECOIL AND REPORT MILD

THIS LOAD WILL SHOOT ABOUT 2 MOA ,FUNCTION= EXCELLENT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BULLET: 35 CAL, 185 GR SPEER FLN

PRIMER: CCI LR

PARENT CASE: MIXED

POWDER: 45.0 GR- LEVEREVOLUTION ** SLIGHTLY COMPRESSED**

CASE LENGTH: 1.785

OAL: SEATED TO CANNELURE

RIFLE: MARLIN 336C/ ZEISS CONQUEST 3X9

DISTANCE FROM MUZZLE TO CENTER OF CHRONOGRAPH: 10 FEET

CHRONOGRAPH: PRO CHRONO “PAL”



CHRONOGRAPHED VELOCITIES

SHOT 1 2083
SHOT 2 2023
SHOT 3 2038
SHOT 4 2076
SHOT 5 2011
AVG- 2046 MAX DEV – 72
GROUP SIZE-NA

NO SIGNS OF PRESSURE, RECOIL AND REPORT AVERAGE

THIS LOAD WILL SHOOT ABOUT 2 - 2.5 MOA. FUNCTION= EXCELLENT

THIS LOAD WAS SUPPOSED TO BE MAX FOR A NORMAL LENGTH CASE AND GIVE A MV OF 2300 FPS ACCORDING TO THE HODGDON DATA WEBSITE, I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED HERE. I THINK I COULD BUMP IT UP A LITTLE AND ALSO PERHAPS GET IT TO SHOOT UNDER 2 MOA BUT IM DOUBT I WD EVER GET IT TO 2300 FPS AND NOT SURE IT IS WORTH THE COST AND EFFORT, WHEN COMPARED TO THE 200GR SOFT NOSE LOAD AND THE KNOWN EXCELLENT TERMINAL EFFECTS OF THAT LOAD.

 

[Broom_jm]

Lots of good data! How far out would you realistically expect to shoot this load?

 

[Dwight D]

I tested it to 200 yds and was satisfied that was doable, but at least in a lever gun, I'm thinking 200-225 is about it. However if one had a Rem 600...... hmm

 

[NKBJ]

Dwight D, that's about what my uncle said about his .35 Remington, out to 200 yards the deer was his but past 200 he didn't know where in the world that bullet got off to.

 

[Dwight D]

In a lever gun we are limited in what bullets we can use, but if one had a bolt gun like a Rem 600, ( they made a few in 35 Rem) then I could see some real potential for a better bullet in a more accurate platform. At that point it would just be matter of how good you are at doping the wind and hold over.

 

[mike trible]

If you have trimmed the cases .120" after you pulled the bullets and then seated the bullets and crimped them in the cannelure, you have reduced the OAL and the base of the bullet is now deeper into the case than before. Doesn't this reduce the case capacity and possibly increase pressure? With the Lee FCD you don't need to crimp in the cannelure. JMHO

 

[NKBJ]

Used the Lee factory crimp die for the Remington Model 81 (goofy move, sold the rifle with it's original scope and Stith take down mounts years before I knew I would be living in Indiana) but never thought about the die since.

 

[cschwanz]

If you have trimmed the cases .120" after you pulled the bullets and then seated the bullets and crimped them in the cannelure, you have reduced the OAL and the base of the bullet is now deeper into the case than before. Doesn't this reduce the case capacity and possibly increase pressure? With the Lee FCD you don't need to crimp in the cannelure. JMHO

Yes, pushing a cannelured bullet back into the case will increase pressures. That's why you start a load low and work your way up. Factory ammunition is all under SAAMI max pressures but how much, I have no idea. Pushing the bullet back will increase it but you may still be in the safe range. Have to test it. The other option is to leave the bullet at the normal length and ignore the cannelure all together or use a bullet without a cannelure.

 

[Dwight D]

MIKE AND COREY, You are both correct about reducing the case capacity and seating the bullet back in the case to the cannelure. Of course this will increase pressure. I did not list all the steps I took to arrive at the conclusion that my mex-match load was a safe load, but I will tell you this much, that particular load was some older Federal 200 gr ammunition and had a great deal of unused case capacity. So much so that even after trimming and re-seating back to the cannelure, the load was still not a compressed load. That in of itself does not make it safe of course. But I will just conclude that the factory load was so mild there was a lot of room to play with. Modifying cartridges and developing loads is something to be careful with and should be done by experienced people. I have been reloading for 38 years now and am satisfied that my loads are safe in the guns I fire them in. You should do the same. I edited my personal notes to give the final data in a short and concise Readers Digest version, and did not see the need to go into depth and detail about the entire process.

Thanks for making a good point, I would definitely not want someone who is inexperienced to get the wrong idea on how to proceed with load development from a single internet post I put up that was just sharing data. So to all who read this, do your own research and make sure you know what your are doing when reloading and especially during load development. After all I could be a older guy who has a clue as to what I am doing, or I could be a 12 year old girl who lives in Cambodia with a fast internet connection, a big imagination, and a wicked sense of humor!

Corey- In the 35 Rem Marlin, trimming the case back to 1.8 and seating to the cannelure with both the 180 and 200 gr bullets I tested resulted in no feeding or function problems at all. However I also did some work with 1.8 45-70 loads and Marlin lever guns. First off I will state I hate all lead bullets. I just hate the mess and I hate cleaning lead from a barrel. Back when I was younger and had more time then money I loaded and shot thousands. Now thank the Lord, I don't have to so I don't. Anyway I tried 2 different jacketed bullets with my 45-70 1.8 loads. Keep in mind to get down to 1.8 in a 45-70 case you are removing much more of the case then you are in a 35 Rem, relatively speaking. With a 300 gr Rem JHP bullet seated to the cannelure the COL becomes so short that feeding and function becomes problematic in the Marlin lever gun. I think it is possible to modify the carrier to work with a short round but I would rather not. However I did find just the ticket in the Rem 405 gr JSP -

Remington Bullets 45-70 Government (458 Diameter) 405 Grain Soft Point

This bullet has a double cannelure and I found that if I trim the case to 1.8 and seat in the bottom cannelure the COL is very close to the COL of a factory 300 gr round. Feed and function were perfect, however the MV was only 1523 avg. Big and slow from my 16 in non ported Guide Gun. But it still packs a wallop. At 100 yds this load retains 1561 FPE, which is 272 more FPE then a 44 mag with a 240 coming from a rifle at a mv of 1900. Accuracy was also very good. I have not shot a deer with that load yet, but I think the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

 

[Broom_jm]

MIKE AND COREY, You are both correct about reducing the case capacity and seating the bullet back in the case to the cannelure. Of course this will increase pressure. I did not list all the steps I took to arrive at the conclusion that my mex-match load was a safe load, but I will tell you this much, that particular load was some older Federal 200 gr ammunition and had a great deal of unused case capacity. So much so that even after trimming and re-seating back to the cannelure, the load was still not a compressed load. That in of itself does not make it safe of course. But I will just conclude that the factory load was so mild there was a lot of room to play with. Modifying cartridges and developing loads is something to be careful with and should be done by experienced people. I have been reloading for 38 years now and am satisfied that my loads are safe in the guns I fire them in. You should do the same. I edited my personal notes to give the final data in a short and concise Readers Digest version, and did not see the need to go into depth and detail about the entire process.

Thanks for making a good point, I would definitely not want someone who is inexperienced to get the wrong idea on how to proceed with load development from a single internet post I put up that was just sharing data. So to all who read this, do your own research and make sure you know what your are doing when reloading and especially during load development. After all I could be a older guy who has a clue as to what I am doing, or I could be a 12 year old girl who lives in Cambodia with a fast internet connection, a big imagination, and a wicked sense of humor!

Corey- In the 35 Rem Marlin, trimming the case back to 1.8 and seating to the cannelure with both the 180 and 200 gr bullets I tested resulted in no feeding or function problems at all. However I also did some work with 1.8 45-70 loads and Marlin lever guns. First off I will state I hate all lead bullets. I just hate the mess and I hate cleaning lead from a barrel. Back when I was younger and had more time then money I loaded and shot thousands. Now thank the Lord, I don't have to so I don't. Anyway I tried 2 different jacketed bullets with my 45-70 1.8 loads. Keep in mind to get down to 1.8 in a 45-70 case you are removing much more of the case then you are in a 35 Rem, relatively speaking. With a 300 gr Rem JHP bullet seated to the cannelure the COL becomes so short that feeding and function becomes problematic in the Marlin lever gun. I think it is possible to modify the carrier to work with a short round but I would rather not. However I did find just the ticket in the Rem 405 gr JSP -

Remington Bullets 45-70 Government (458 Diameter) 405 Grain Soft Point

This bullet has a double cannelure and I found that if I trim the case to 1.8 and seat in the bottom cannelure the COL is very close to the COL of a factory 300 gr round. Feed and function were perfect, however the MV was only 1523 avg. Big and slow from my 16 in non ported Guide Gun. But it still packs a wallop. At 100 yds this load retains 1561 FPE, which is 272 more FPE then a 44 mag with a 240 coming from a rifle at a mv of 1900. Accuracy was also very good. I have not shot a deer with that load yet, but I think the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

Yeah, when you're getting hit by a freight train, it doesn't have to be going all that fast to ruin your day! A 405gr bullet at 1523fps will probably shoot through TWO deer at 100 yards...things that big just don't slow down for nothin'.

That can't be much slower than the original 45/70 loads, which killed a whole lot of buffalo, back in the day.

 

[NKBJ]

The 45-70 is deer rifle incarnate.
If the Natural Resources Commission doesn't correct the deficiency of the reg I will probably just stick with muzzleloaders shooting soft cast lubed and paper patched cast bullets.

My "45-70" TC New Englander...

 

[Dwight D]

Well since every one likes the 45-70 I'll make another thread on my 1.8 45-70 stuff. HERE IS A LINK:


https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ding/399432-45-70-1-8-some-comments-info.html

 

[NKBJ]

Please do sir.
Tinkering is the joyful essence of reloading.
And this confirmed tinkerer would certainly enjoy seeing what you've come up with.

 

[Dwight D]

Here is a picture of the 4 1.8 Indiana Compliant loads I currently work with. From left to right:

44 magnum-Factory WW White box 240 gr JSP

35 Rem 1.8 - pictured with 180 gr Speer

358 Just Hunt 1.8 with a 200 gr Barnes TTSX - MV 2887 fps

45-70 1.8- pictured with 405 gr Rem JSP