35 Viper chambered AR - Indiana deer legal-what's your opinion?

[Black Star]

We recently finished our first 35 Viper chambered AR and would like to get input / opinion from Indiana Deer Hunters on what you think of the rifle. Complete Specs and photos are posted here 35Viper.html

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Opinion on the cartridge?

Legality of such?

Opinion of the rifle itself?

(For those wondering - from the pic in the link, it is deer legal out of a rifle in IN (and handgun, too...))

 

[42769vette]

I wouldnt normally post a opinion on your product, but since you ask, I think it would sell better without all that UTG junk on in.

 

[Lunati]

I wouldnt normally post a opinion on your product, but since you ask, I think it would sell better without all that UTG junk on in.

Hands down...

 

[rvb]

looks like barrel length before the first brake opening is way < 16" ? Is it a ~12" barrel w/ that long brake pinned on to get to 16"? Why so short for a hunting gun, wouldn't you want the velocity of a full 16-20" barrel?

.308 bolt w/ an AR carrier (would that work?) or custom bolt?

wouldn't you want to free float the barrel for a hunting gun?

-rvb

 

[Hookeye]

With .358 WSSM, .450 BM and .458 Socom................I don't know how much of an AR market there is for your round.
For 200 yards and in the trimmed .35 Rem is popular (and gaining more of a following). Multiple platforms available too.
Not sure if an AR is enough of a draw to go with something different.

Good luck though, variety makes things fun.

 

[Hookeye]

looks like barrel length before the first brake opening is way < 16" ? Is it a ~12-13" barrel w/ that long brake pinned on to get to 16"? Why so short for a hunting gun, wouldn't you want the velocity of a full 16-20" barrel?

.308 bolt w/ an AR carrier (would that work?) or custom bolt?

wouldn't you want to free float the barrel for a hunting gun?

-rvb

If it shoots around 2" @100 or under it's good enough for deer. I got sub 1" with a couple of AR's in .223 after trigger jobs (non free float).
16" bbl is handy, so no problem with that. The issue IMHO would be blast. Lose some V with shorter bbls, but that might help depending on what bullet one picks.
Brakes make things loud.
If non integral, one could screw on a longer one, or a non brake, just to make things less annoying sound wise.
FWIW my .35 Rem runs a 16.25" BBL

 

[rvb]

If it shoots around 2" @100 or under it's good enough for deer. I got sub 1" with a couple of AR's in .223 after trigger jobs (non free float).

w/ a sling and/or bracing up against something for support, I can certainly pull off more than 2" from zero pretty easy.... even if the gun is capable of good groups. That's what FF gets you. Like I said, I'm not a hunter, but I'd think being 2-4" off because you braced off a fork in a tree or stump, etc would be bad? If not, then nevermind......

-rvb

 

[Beau]

I think you should become an INGO Advertiser if you want to pimp your stuff.

 

[MisterFurious]

Seems spendy; I would rather trim 35 rem cases. Cool looking, I'll give ya that.

 

[teddy12b]

Not trying to be a jerk and just trying to be honest. The first thought that went into my head was "WTF is a 35 viper", "Is this one more wild cat caliber for IN hunting guns?

As far as calibers go, I think the deer legal pistol calibers are getting pretty saturated right now and eventually we're going to see the winning calibers shake out from the rest. Personally, I'd be trying to get on the winning caliber bandwagon before trying to reinvent the wheel and get people to reinvest in a whole new reloading caliber setup. I'm not saying that guys won't be lined up around the block to pay $3.50 every time they pull the trigger, but in the off chance that they aren't millionaires and have a mortgage and utility bills each month they're probably going to be reloading.

Then I saw the rifle and thought to myself "WTF??". I couldn't agree more with the comment about dumping the cheapo rail. That's the kind of rail that gets marketed towards guys who do nothing more than pull their rifle out of a closet to show friends. If you want it for hunters and want it to be something worth bragging about either free floated rail or a free floated tube. Give yourself an opportunity to brag about including accuracy adding features, not just looking cheesy. Speaking of cheesy, what on earth is that muzzle break going to do for anyone? If you're marketing to experienced shooters or hunters they're going to know that the muzzlebreak inside a woods sucks. If you're marketing to new guys, they're going to find out how much shooting that thing sucks the first time they pull that trigger.

I like the idea of the Hogue grip because that'll be nice out in the weather, and I like the idea of a nickel boron BCG just because it'll look a little nicer and hopefully work better. I like what you're trying to do with having an optic on the gun ready to go, but anyone who uses their stuff isn't going to jump on a UTG scope. Most rifle and optic packages get separated pretty quickly, I think you'd reach more people by leaving it as "optic ready" without the scope.

Please take this as constructive criticism and not just one more jerk on the internet being a jerk. Becoming a site supporter would get you some more attention from myself and others.

 

[09hemi]

My concern is the $3.50 PER ROUND...i may just be a cheap ass but thats $105 to fill up a 30 round mag. No thank you

 

[IndyGunworks]

I wouldnt normally post a opinion on your product, but since you ask, I think it would sell better without all that UTG junk on in.

x1000 i would not trust a company that puts their name behind UTG products.

 

[Mark-DuCo]

So, is this for millionaire hunters or millionaire taktikoolers?

 

[42769vette]

Im not even saying get rid of the UTG and go with a FF rail. I'm saying you could put standard hand guards on the gun, knock 20 bucks off the price and have a better product IE better seller. If you want FF, that's great, but that's also something end user can change, or something that could be done on a case by case basis. And you dont have to spend a fortune on the scope, but get something that is functional, or don't do a package scope deal.

The thing is your advertising it at premium prices for a AR, you need premium parts to draw that price. Folks that spend that kind of money per round, will want quality. I do realize UTG is the easiest company in the world to get dealer prices at, but that doesn't make them a good idea.

 

[teddy12b]

The thing is your advertising it at premium prices for a AR, you need premium parts to draw that price. Folks that spend that kind of money per round, will want quality.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Producing an AR that looks like the real deal, but is made of cheapo cheesy parts doesn't have success written on it when it. Guys with that kind of money to spend didn't get that kind of money to spend by being stupid (generally speaking). The rifle as it's currently setup, may be worth a try in the $800 - $900 price bracket, but for the money on the price tag why would anyone buy it?

 

[Hellion_1]

A+ on trying something different. Just a few thoughts:

1. This is a hunting rifle, so dump the tactical stuff.

A. Remove the front sight post/gas block and replace it with a low profile gas block that will fit under a free-float hand guard. (Most hunters are going to use a scope and will not want to stare at a sight post in their scope picture.)
B. Replace the railed hand guard with a longer, smooth, free-floated hand guard. Possibly knurled for grip, or maybe one that will allow the end user to bolt-on a rail section if they want.
C. Leave off the scope, or attach a better, entry level hunting scope. Like a Redfield.
D. You may want more public opinion on this one, but I say put on a fixed stock.
E. Dump the muzzle brake. I can't imagine that cartridge is so uncomfortable to shoot with the AR15 gas system/buffer spring that is already on the rifle. Instead, extend your barrel length and go for a good quality crown on the end of the barrel.

2. Include a box of ammo with the purchase of the rifle. The ammo price is steep, but if the hunter does his job he only needs one round to put his target down. (The free 20 rounds should cover sight-in and a few to hunt with.)

Keep going with this. This is the kind of ingenuity that makes America great!! Good luck!!

 

[Black Star]

I do realize UTG is the easiest company in the world to get dealer prices at, but that doesn't make them a good idea.

We get dealer pricing through our 9 distributors for ANY firearm, firearms parts or accessory on the market. Not sure where you are getting your info but Leapers, Inc. is the manufacturer of the UTG product line. And yes, they do sell dealer direct, if you do volume business. While their optics are somewhat Fischer-Price in comparison to other industry high end units, their Quad Rail systems are American made and as good quality as YHM and other spendy units, without the high cost. We have built over 600 custom ARs that were ordered with their MTU001 Quad Rail and have had ONE problem. That turned out to be a single hex head cap screw that backed out because one of our shop monkeys forgot the Loctite. We also, can add any high end parts the customer wants to pay for. The scope in the photos is what is known in the ad industry as FPO or for position only. It's fairly common knowledge that the serious wildcat enthusiast would more than likely spend up to half the purchase price of the rifle on a serious optic setup.

 

[42769vette]

We get dealer pricing through our 9 distributors for ANY firearm, firearms parts or accessory on the market. Not sure where you are getting your info but Leapers, Inc. is the manufacturer of the UTG product line. And yes, they do sell dealer direct, if you do volume business. While their optics are somewhat Fischer-Price in comparison to other industry high end units, their Quad Rail systems are American made and as good quality as YHM and other spendy units, without the high cost. We have built over 600 custom ARs that were ordered with their MTU001 Quad Rail and have had ONE problem. That turned out to be a single hex head cap screw that backed out because one of our shop monkeys forgot the Loctite. We also, can add any high end parts the customer wants to pay for. The scope in the photos is what is known in the ad industry as FPO or for position only. It's fairly common knowledge that the serious wildcat enthusiast would more than likely spend up to half the purchase price of the rifle on a serious optic setup.

What Im getting at is by buying direct you get better pricing (IE make more money). I assume you are buying UTG direct because they are easy to get dealer direct pricing (cheap price, not minimum's etc). I assumed you were not buying UTG because you thought it was a quality Item (you will have a tough road to hoe convincing the educated buyer UTG is the same quality as YHM. The mall ninja will bite hook line and sinker). You cant get on one of these forums, and ask "what do you think" then get pissed at the folks trying to give constructive criticism. If you dont want to hear what folks are thinking, but still want to advertise your product on INGO for free I suggest changing your name and saying something to the effect of "check this item out"

There are some firearms items that no distributer carrys, and you HAVE to be direct, but thats a side issue.

 

[Black Star]

A+ on trying something different. Just a few thoughts:

A. Remove the front sight post/gas block and replace it with a low profile gas block that will fit under a free-float hand guard. (Most hunters are going to use a scope and will not want to stare at a sight post in their scope picture.)
Keep going with this. This is the kind of ingenuity that makes America great!! Good luck!!

The next one off the bench will have a 16" crowned bbl, low profile picatinny gas block, and probably FF hand guard. Fairly common misconception due to what would seem to be solid logic but, believe it or not, on an AR rifle the front sight (A2 gas block) completely disappears through the reticle of anything over 6 power optics. The setup in the photos is used to demonstrate this on a daily basis here to customers at the shop. If I was setting this rifle personally, for hunting in our local area, I would just add an A2 rear sight. I can hit a man sized target center of mass at 200 yards with this setup and the longest shot we get around here is probably inside 70 yards at the longest.

Thanks for your input